Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I think the work that we do in committee is vital and a lot of really important amendments come forward for legislation.

I just want to remind the committee also that for members who are sick, for members who can't travel because they're pregnant, for members who have things come up in their life, they wouldn't be able to participate in committee at all. Without these options it means that many members won't be able to always actually take part in committee. I think that is really what we need to focus on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Bains.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'm not sure I witnessed any limitations in the resources. I understand there are some challenges with making sure our interpreters are available. Not only was I able to fully meet the obligations of my committee work, preparing for questions and everything that's associated with committee work, but we also have pre-committee meetings, which I was able to fully participate in, and meet with our caucus to ensure we understand what reports are coming out and the level of the studies that are being done.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, I just want to get in one more quick comment.

I think we have to be careful as parliamentarians about setting a precedent of working while we're sick. I don't think it's actually good for physical health or mental health to put ourselves in situations where we might not be there in the headspace. Sometimes our body actually needs to be taken out for a while so that we can heal.

Regarding resources too, Madam Chair, I participated in committees where our committee actually has been cancelled because of lack of resources, rooms or translators. I think that's something that should be top of mind as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mrs. Romanado, you have six minutes.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Through you, I'd like to thank all of the witnesses for sharing their stories with us today. I think this is very helpful for us in deliberating on whether or not hybrid Parliament should continue.

I'd like to start with my colleague, MP Bains.

It's great to see you on the screen and I'm really looking forward to having you back in Ottawa when it's safe for you to do so. I'm glad that you're taking care of your health.

You mentioned that while you were ill and in line to receive a transplant, travel was not possible for you, but you were still able to be the voice of your constituents in Ottawa through the hybrid provisions. Can you elaborate for the committee on how that ability allowed your family also to be put at ease, that you were not putting yourself at risk to come to Ottawa, but were still able to serve your constituents?

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you for the question.

Through you, Madam Chair, it was not possible to travel, because every other day I would have to go to receive the dialysis treatment. However, because I was doing it overnight, I was able to fully commit myself to the work I needed to do. In addition to that, I was able to meet with stakeholders, identify priorities in my community, meet with the city. You see your local mayor and local councillors at events and things like that, but there are various departments within the city—the engineers, the city manager, the planners. I needed to talk to them about affordability and the housing initiatives we have, the various programs we can deliver. It was really interesting to hear them say that they had never even met their member of Parliament in previous years.

I think the member prior to us said this shouldn't be for us, that it should be for the residents and the citizens of Canada—this should benefit them. I believe my doing that work was actually benefiting them even more, because I was able to ensure that I could schedule things where I was meeting with stakeholders and committing to the parliamentary work, getting online, and really managing both aspects of it, and being able to really deliver on the priorities that are needed in my city.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, MP Bains.

Next I would like to go to MP Collins.

You highlighted four situations in which a hybrid Parliament allowed you to continue doing the work you do and representing the citizens here in Ottawa.

We've heard this. Please pardon my language, but shit happens, and people don't always plan for illness. Who plans for an illness? Who plans for the child care when a day care closes down because there's an outbreak of gastro, or something else happens, and you have to stay home?

This hybrid provision has allowed MPs to continue the work they need to do while taking care of business that, unfortunately, has come their way in certain situations.

Mr. Duguay, you said that you discussed this issue with several former MPs. Had it been possible at the time to have a hybrid Parliament, would they have been in favour of such an approach? Do you think we should think a little bit more about having a hybrid Parliament?

[Léo Duguay]

The overwhelming majority of former MPs are adamant that, had there been a hybrid Parliament in their day, they would have been able to participate in its work much more often. The other witnesses today say that there are many reasons why we should have a hybrid Parliament, and those reasons would have been the same when I was a member.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you so much.

With that, I'd like to turn it over to Madam Cadman.

First of all, my deepest condolences for all that you and your family have gone through. I can't even imagine. I want to thank you for your advocacy for victims in your son's name and for your continued work in that field.

Perhaps you'd like to reflect on what you've heard today in terms of current parliamentarians being able to continue to do the work they're doing. Would you like to make any comments on that? Thank you.

[Dona Cadman]

One thing I'd like to say is that our community elects us to carry their concerns to Ottawa. Being in Ottawa all the time, you hear very little news about what happens elsewhere, especially in B.C., or any of the outer areas from the centre of Canada. It's usually just about Ontario and Quebec. I'm sorry to say that, but that's the way it seems.

Out here we hear about everything across Canada, because we're way out here. They do it on the east coast, too. If we're not in our communities listening to the people who elected us, we're not doing our jobs.

I have just one other thing to say, please. MPs spend usually three weeks in Ottawa and one week at home. We should reverse that to one week in Ottawa and three at home.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Distance was mentioned earlier. I would like to inform my colleagues that, even in Quebec, there are elected officials who have to drive 10 hours to get to Ottawa. It is possible to take a plane, you may say, but there are accessibility problems. You have to be very careful.

I went to Vancouver just two months ago, and I can tell you that the trip took me less time than going to the north shore or the Gaspé. I took the plane. There was a two-hour wait before boarding. In short, in less than 10 hours, I was there. That's what I had to say about the distances.

I would also like to share my appreciation. We must recognize the things that worked well. One of the things that comes to mind is the application for voting. You remember, Madam Chair and colleagues, that it used to take forever during recorded divisions. Now, with this application, votes are expedited.

With that said, I would like to express my support for our witnesses. I have a lot of sympathy for what they are going through.

First, Mr. Bains, do you miss working on the Hill? I understand that you have been away for a while.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you for the question.

I apologize. My French is not that good, so I will be speaking in English.

Yes, of course, I miss seeing my colleagues and being able to discuss important work face to face with them. I have a tremendous amount of respect for all my colleagues. They've been extremely supportive. Many of them have called me throughout the week over the time I've been absent from Parliament. I have built great relationships over the phone through various caucus meetings.

Again, the hybrid options allow me to do that and remain in touch with everybody. Although I miss being physically there and doing the work there, I've had all the opportunity to ensure that I'm developing strong relationships with my colleagues. I am a rookie MP. It is my first year and I've been able to develop strong relationships.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have a lot of concerns. I am a mother, and work-life balance is important to me. I have to say that every party can have a procedure. We all want to have more women and more young people in our ranks. We all agree on that. We also don't want to put the brakes on new technology.

With that said, Mr. Bains, in the context of having to worry about your health, has the hybrid Parliament made you work more? I understand that this is helpful for keeping in touch, but you also had to take care of your health. I'm concerned about whether the hybrid model made you work more because there was no reason not to.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It's a tough question. It's hard to measure. I'm not afraid of doing a lot of work, so I'm not sure if I was doing more or less.

I think being accessible could allow you to actually do more and be more productive. You're not being challenged with the travel time, with getting from here to there, or with being late for things. You have access; you're there and you are ultimately more accessible.

I would agree with you. I think you end up doing more work when it comes to a hybrid Parliament.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Duguay, I'm going to ask you my last question. Since the 1980s, you have seen a lot of things and witnessed the evolution of technology.

You said you favour in-person participation in committees. I digress here to point out that the witnesses missed some of the informal discussions that we had outside our meetings.

If I understood you correctly, would you agree with the continuation of witnesses appearing in committee by video conference, but not necessarily with the hybrid format in the House of Commons generally?

[Léo Duguay]

I believe in having the same conditions in committees as in the House of Commons. It seems to me to be entirely appropriate and responsible to have hybrid meetings, as this allows for participation in the proceedings both in person and in virtual mode.

I reiterate that most of my colleagues and I are adamantly in favour of not requiring members of Parliament to come to Ottawa all the time to participate in the work of the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Duguay and Ms. Gaudreau.

Ms. Blaney, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and, as always, through you, my first question is for Ms. Collins.

I really appreciate the information that you shared today about your specific challenges. I want to say how much I appreciate all the speakers sharing, in some cases some incredibly personal stories. I apologize that we're in a situation where we have to force members to show their most vulnerable realities so that we can talk about why it is so important to talk about a hybrid Parliament.

One of the things Ms. Collins mentioned was making Parliament more accessible. We know that we still do not have the representation of women within Parliament that we want to see. We've never reached that threshold, and we're all working towards it. I believe every party is committed in different ways and levels.

I'm wondering if you can talk about how this really allows you to be able to meet your commitments as a parent and to meet the commitments to your body to carry a child. What does this potentially mean in the future for women who are looking at joining us here in Ottawa?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you for the question.

I think fundamentally we need to encourage more women to run. My experience, especially when talking to young women and women from my area here in B.C., is that it's incredibly hard to convince them. You have to be honest with them that your commute is a minimum of 10 hours door to door, oftentimes much longer, and on top of that is the time that you have to spend away from a young infant for the demands of this job. It is a challenge.

If we can make Parliament more family friendly, we know it will increase women's participation. The Library of Parliament did a study. The report said that there are seven key factors that contribute to barriers that women face, and one of those key factors was the absence of family-friendly and gender-sensitive workplaces. It's vital that we address this for our future parliamentarians for representation and for equity.

A lot of the time I think we also miss the conversation around people with disabilities. This technology opens up the possibility for many people with disabilities to run and to be a member of Parliament, even though maybe their health or their disability might have disallowed that in the past.

I think it's critical that we look at this and really look at how we make Parliament more equitable and more accessible.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

One of the other questions that I have for you, Ms. Collins—it's very odd to keep calling you that, but we'll go with it—is how hybrid Parliament is also helpful when you're in Ottawa. I think we forget that we used to not have a voting app, which meant that people who had small children were often not able to be there to read stories to their children and tuck them in at night. We also know that things happen, as was so eloquently said earlier. I think sometimes terrible things happen, but if we're able to step out of a room and vote, it really makes sure that we're able to express what we're hearing from our constituents.

I'm wondering if you could talk about that as well.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Honestly, it was transformational for me, especially as a mom of a young infant. Being able to vote electronically made such a huge difference in terms of the time that I could spend with my daughter, especially in those early months.

Some of the questions from the previous MPs were around whether this meant more work, and I would say, yes, it did. I was working more on my parliamentary duties. I was working more when it came to being in the constituency and hearing from constituents. I was also doing a better job as a mom, as a parent and as a partner. I was able to do all of these things much better.

I love my job. It's such rewarding work. It's such a privilege to represent the riding of Victoria. If we were to go back to a world without a virtual Parliament.... I'm committed to running again in the next election. I don't know if I would choose to run again after that. I've spoken with other members across party lines who have young families and who have said the same thing. We have an opportunity to make Parliament more accessible and to allow members to be better at their jobs and also better at fulfilling the other duties in their lives.

I also want to mention the piece around working while sick. I agree with the member who mentioned that we don't want to normalize the idea of working while sick, but that's actually happening in person and that's scary, because that oftentimes will spread the disease. But there are all kinds of illnesses and diseases, and we want to give members the choice. We want to give women the choice. We want to give people with disabilities the choice. We want to give members the choice to do this work in the best way possible.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

I'll go to you, Mr. Bains, and ask specifically about how having the voting app impacted your ability to address your serious health issues.