Evidence of meeting #41 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was election.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
I am going to pause for a second.
We have spent a lot of time on this committee understanding the important work that interpreters do. We are a country with two official languages. Therefore, I'm going to ask that, as committee members, we ask questions through the chair and we let our witness—whom we invited to the committee, remember—answer those questions.
With that, Mr. Cooper, you have a minute and a half left. I do not want to hear two voices speaking, from anyone, at the same time. It's important that we actually get to the work we are doing.
It's back to you, Mr. Cooper.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Perrault, in your testimony you said, “The Canada Elections Act very clearly prohibits foreign contributions to candidates.” Can you elaborate on some of the penalties for either funnelling money that is foreign or directing money to candidates or knowingly receiving such monies?
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Madam Chair, if the committee wishes, I do have a table of the various offences that could come into play in this situation. I'm happy to share that with the committee rather than reciting them.
It is correct that the law very clearly prohibits contributions from any entity other than an individual who is either a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident. Any other contribution is illegal. It is also illegal to hide the source of a contribution and to direct contributions to other persons. There are various offences for that. Typically, the highest penalty is a year imprisonment.
I have a full table that I'd be happy to share with the committee.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I believe it's one year, depending on the offence.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
That's it? Excellent. Thank you.
We will now go to Mr. Turnbull for six minutes.
November 22nd, 2022 / 12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thanks, Mr. Perrault, for coming back to our committee. You're making regular appearances here, which we appreciate.
I want to start with a very simple, clear question.
In your opinion, was the election in 2019 fair and free in Canada?
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I have no reason, Madam Chair, to believe that the election overall was not a free and fair election.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
What if I were to ask you the same about the election in 2021? Was that election free and fair, as a democratic election should be, in your opinion?
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
In my opinion, there's no reason to believe that it was not a free and fair election.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
When you say, “no reason to believe,” I would say that you, of all people, would have oversight and ability to see many of the factors that lead you to make that judgment. That's a pretty important blanket statement you're making. How can you be certain that your judgment is accurate? What are you taking into consideration when you say that our elections, in both instances, were free and fair?
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I was careful, Madam Chair, to speak in the negative, in the sense that from what I know, I have no reason to doubt that it was free and fair.
I am accountable for the overall conduct of the election. Of course, in all elections there are issues that we encounter and we've seen, and we've spoken in this committee about cases, for example, of incorrect information about the voting process, which we seek to correct and make sure electors are able to vote.
There may be offences that are committed that we find out about after the fact, and there may be investigations that are or are not under way that I would not know about, but with the information that I have, I have no reason to believe that the election was not a free and fair election.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you. Okay.
Along similar lines, do you have any reason to believe that in either 2019 or 2021 the federal elections were disrupted or compromised by foreign interference?
12:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I have no specific intelligence or evidence in that regard.
What I will say is that through our relationship with the national security agencies, we are—and we were prior to both elections—aware that this was an area of risk and there was an interest in certain countries in conducting various forms of disruption or interference in the elections. This is one of the reasons why we held a meeting with political parties and the national security agencies to start raising awareness and build a relationship between the various players in order to protect the election.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
What steps have been taken to protect the election? I'm sure you have specific examples.
12:15 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
For example, certainly in our case, one of the key aspects that we need to do is work with the cybersecurity experts and the Government of Canada to secure our infrastructure so that we are able to actually deliver the election and that we do not suffer from cyber-attacks.
We also take extensive steps to inform Canadians and inform the media of the procedures that we follow in order for ensuring that the vote is fair. We have a communications role to play during the election to educate Canadians and help them understand their rights and what they have to do. We also provide training to parties and candidates regarding obligations—their financial obligations and their reporting requirements—so there's a range of activities that we undertake to ensure the fairness of the election.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Okay. That's great.
Do you have any reason to believe that Canadians' ability to vote was compromised in any way by foreign election interference in either the 2019 or the 2021 general election?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Generally speaking, I would say not. As I indicated to this committee, in the past there have been cases of incorrect information on the voting process. It's very difficult to ascertain whether incorrect information originates from a domestic or a foreign source. Whichever the source, we do rectify the information.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you.
In terms of election financing, I understand that—you've said it and I think Mr. Cooper also made mention of this in his questioning—there were limits on foreign contributions to candidates, i.e., there is none allowable, so that's good, obviously, as we can all agree.
How do our election financing rules stack up against those of other jurisdictions around the world? My understanding is that they're pretty stringent, which is a good thing for us. Could you give us some details on that?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I think that overall, Madam Chair, we have a very robust regime of political financing, with a mix of private and public funding, which I think is healthy. We have strong disclosure rules and low contribution limits. We do regulate a range of political entities, going from nomination contestants, electoral district associations, political parties and leadership contestants, so it's a very extensive regime.
It never is perfect. I've made recommendations to improve it, but I would say overall it's a very robust regime.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Can you explain what protocols are in place when Elections Canada becomes aware of a candidate violating the Canada Elections Act?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
If we have, through whatever source, grounds to believe or even suspect that there have been specific cases of non-compliance, we would necessarily refer that to the commissioner for her to investigate.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
When Elections Canada is alerted to a campaign breaking financing laws, how does Elections Canada respond? Do you alert the commissioner and they launch an investigation?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
The commissioner decides whether the facts warrant launching an investigation or a review.