Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2023

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I would be pleased to answer the honourable member's question. Not only are my strong statements rooted in feeling, but they are also rooted in the measures our government is taking. Why—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

How many diplomats were expelled in 2018?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'm going to answer, but you have to give me the chance.

First, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, I have many tools at my disposal when it comes to dealing with China. To your question specifically, I will say this: I will never hesitate to send home any diplomats who violate the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations or Canadian laws. Now—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Minister, I'm going to try to keep this simple.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Madam Chair—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I have a simple question.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Madam Chair, I would just like to answer the question.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I have a simple question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We're going to take a break, Mr. Berthold.

I have Mr. Turnbull on a point of order.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm just going to bring up what we all know, which is that Mr. Berthold is talking over the minister. If he wants to get responses to his questions, I think we should be able to hear the minister's responses.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

At the beginning of my comments, I was very clear that we cannot have a good conversation unless all comments—from colleagues, ministers, everyone alike—go through the chair.

All comments have to be addressed through the chair, and only one person can speak at a time.

Interpreters can only do the work they do when one person at a time is speaking. I recognize that the time belongs to members, but to pretend that this is a courtroom and go back and forth also doesn't help. On one side, we're saying that this is a very important conversation and we all want to get there, and then on the other, we're kind of trying to make a show out of it.

We should be mindful about how we answer questions. As I asked earlier of both of you, let's just try to keep it tight. The whole concept of thanking for a question or whatever else today is not needed. We said it once at the beginning, we'll say it at the end, and we'll go on our way. We'll ask questions and answer questions as factually as possible. We can make this work.

Go ahead, Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll repeat my question. How many Chinese regime diplomats did the Government of Canada expel in 2018?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

As I was telling you, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, I have a number of tools in my tool box to manage relations with other countries, including China. What we've done—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Chair—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

What we've done, and I think this is what you really want to know, is—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Chair, can I have the floor back, please?

Minister, I asked you about the number of expelled diplomats in 2018. I gather that none were. How many diplomats were expelled in 2019?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

The important thing for the honourable member to understand about diplomatic relations is that diplomats have to adhere to the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. If they violate the convention, we expel them, to be sure. What is also important to understand is that we have to be there—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Minister—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

—from the beginning to ensure that, if we see already—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I gather that I won't get an answer to my question about 2019.

In 2021, how many diplomats were expelled?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We can take action to prevent a problem, instead of fixing it. As was in the news this morning, we denied prospective Chinese diplomats visas.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Chair, I'm going to continue with my questions.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a point of order.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

In 2021, 2022 and 2023—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.