Evidence of meeting #57 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Madam Chair, I'm doing my best to keep my questions short.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
I know, but listen, friends. The more time we take like this, the less time we actually have.
I really want to find a way forward. Please, let's maximize our time—all of us.
I see Mr. Turnbull on a point of order.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
I want the minister to be given the space and time to respond to the questions that Mr. Berthold is posing. It is important. He has important questions, but he should be equally interested in the answers he is getting.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Some of us want that. Unfortunately, the way this place functions is not functional. These members believe they own the time and, therefore, there are some processes that would give equal time for the question and the answer, because.... I won't get into a commentary.
Mr. Berthold, witnesses need a bit more time to answer questions.
We should be mindful with each other and find the way forward.
Your time is limited. If this is going to keep being interrupted, I'm going to have to let the clock run, rather than keep pausing it.
Go ahead.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Madam Chair, I can use my time how I like, and I will continue to do so.
All I asked for was a number, and what I'm getting from the minister is equivalent to zero. The cover-up continues. It's well and good to say that the government is going to do X and Y and will try to be tough on China, but facts are facts: despite being briefed numerous times over the years, the government did not expel any diplomats.
Here's my second question. When did the minister find out that there were Chinese police stations in Quebec?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
Dear colleague, I’ll go back to your previous question.
Whenever we make decisions about another country, such as China, we consider the services we may also provide in that country. Indeed, there’s a very important rule in diplomacy: reciprocity. Every time we make a decision about Chinese diplomats in Canada, it has an impact in China. It is very important for us to have Canadian diplomats in China, because we need eyes and ears there, especially to protect Canadians who are there.
So, we know that reciprocity is important, we’ve seen it…
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Madam Chair, I think I’ve given the minister enough time…
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
… about Chinese diplomats in Canada, we take into account the repercussions for us in China.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
It’s important that my colleague and, of course, the public understand. Furthermore…
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Chair, I understand that the minister wants to use up all the time to avoid answering my questions. Unfortunately, I still haven’t received an answer. How many diplomats were expelled?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
On a point of order, Madam Chair, I don't know if you have your earpiece in, but the interpreters have been so frustrated by this interaction that they have said they are refusing interpretation. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to continue questions in this way, if we can't properly understand what's happening in the committee. It's a matter of privilege for me to be able to understand the interactions.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
I am told that the interpretation is now working.
The first round is always the toughest. I just want to get to the next person.
Mr. Berthold has been clear with his intentions. I think you have been here long enough that you know how this works. There are certain things I can't do.
If it is what he wants to do, that speaks to what he wants to do.
Mr. Berthold, you have the floor.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Madam Chair, I don’t like your comments about the way I’m asking my questions, and even less so that you would presume to know my intentions.
Minister, for the last time, how many diplomats have been expelled from Canada by the federal government since 2015?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
Here is my answer, Mr. Berthold: Should any Chinese diplomats violate the Vienna Convention, we will act accordingly.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC
In the meantime, we have refused to grant visas, we have summoned the Chinese ambassador several times, we have applied direct pressure on Beijing and we have moved to protect Canadian personnel in China.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Madam Chair, there’s a principle we are trying to respect according to which the minister is granted as much time for her answer as it took to ask the question. Unfortunately, the minister is taking up far too much time, to avoid answering questions.