Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 30th, 2023

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the three MPs who came to inform us of their opinion.

My first question is for Mr. Bergeron.

Mr. Bergeron, I am very familiar with your riding and believe that it's a good idea to add the names "Mont-Saint-Bruno" and "L'Acadie" in view of how important the Acadie River is to Carignan.

I would imagine that you have received some positive comments from people who live in that municipality. They might well be saying that, in a way, they feel more at home in this new riding.

Is that the case?

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I must say that so far, the comments about this addition have been rather negative. What's needed is to find positive aspects that would make the people of Carignan comfortable with the idea. I believe that what's worrying the people of Carignan is the fact that its residents will be split between two different ridings.

So I think changing the name of the riding would go some way towards easing the transition, because they are unhappy about joining the riding of Montarville. I, on the other hand, welcome it with open arms, but don't think that the feeling is mutual. Something other than just the MP is needed to get them interested in this new name for the riding.

I also think it's important to mention the enormous amount of confusion that exists between the Quebec riding and the federal riding, including the very different boundaries. While the name "Montarville" makes a certain amount of sense for the Quebec riding, it makes no sense for the federal riding because it applies to the City of Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville. In my view, the federal riding ended up with the name "Montarville" because it just copied what Quebec did.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Ms. DeBellefeuille, you said that the boundaries of your riding were the outcome of a degree of consensus, but that the decision was not unanimous.

What about its name?

When you attended the October 3 meeting, did some people say that they could live with and liked the new name, or did you get the feeling they didn't like it?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In the views that were exchanged with participants at the public hearing, it was clear to everyone that the word "Soulanges" should appear in the riding's name because an entire section of the Soulanges Canal would henceforth be part of the riding. There was therefore no opposition on that score. There was consensus.

Then there was discussion of the word "Suroît". The members of the commission hesitated about it, because they had heard, in earlier days, that the word "Suroît" meant a lot to our area. It had in the past, but for many years now it has not been as significant. We mentioned this to the members, who were very surprised, I would say, but they obviously understood, because they didn't suggest any other alternative.

The word "Beauharnois" also came up, because it's the name of a sizeable city and a provincial county.

So there was consensus on the names "Soulanges" and "Beauharnois", and also "Salaberry", which is already in the name of the riding, and also because Salaberry-de-Valleyfield Is a large city in my riding with which you are very familiar.

I was therefore very surprised to read in the final proposal that the members of the commission had recommended another name, which was not relevant and had not even been suggested by the people who attended the public hearing. And yet it had been unanimously agreed that the riding could be called Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Ms. DeBellefeuille.

Mr. Garon, I think you gave a good explanation of the community of interest. I was certainly convinced by what you said.

You also talked about the people of Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines, who were not consulted. I know that you keep in close contact with your fellow citizens.

You are no doubt approached by yhese people when you're there. What do they say to you?

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I've personally taken on the task of speaking on behalf of the community. Before coming here today, I received a message from the community. You have the letter from the mayor of Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines, who was rather put out when she saw that Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines had been removed from Mirabel without any form of consultation or prior notice. So was the member of Quebec's provincial parliament.

You know, this county includesSainte-Anne-des-Plaines, another city called La Plaine, as well as Saint-Janvier, a large neighbourhood in Mirabel. The ties between these two municipalities resemble those between Rouyn and Noranda. People go back and forth every day between these two cities, whether for work, leisure or school.

I've taken on the role of reporting the community's grievances to you. In Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines, it's more then a matter of consensus, and there is unanimity. All of the comments I received indicate that the commission made a poor decision.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

In terms of your work as an MP, what is the impact of splintering this community of interest?

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

First of all, it has an impact on all the organizations and the entire social fabric. In our work as MPs, we are called upon daily to help people and direct them to the appropriate resources. Let's take the example of Centre Marie Eve, which provides psychological counselling. The centre is a key organization whose staff work in Mirabel and Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines, but not in La Rivière-du-Nord.

The Mesures alternatives des Basses-Laurentides organization works in the field of justice. Its services are available in Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines and Mirabel. Earlier on, I spoke to you about ABL Immigration.

The user committees for the health system cover Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines and Mirabel. It's also important to consider the reality of our farmers and all of our agriculture-related endeavours. Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines is 87% agricultural, as is Mirabel. There are other cities like Saint-Placide, at 95%, and Saint-Joseph-du-Lac, at 70%. That's not the case in the middle of the Laurentians, where La Rivière-du-Nord is located.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Therrien.

Ms. Blaney, you have the floor.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you to everybody for being here.

All of my questions have already been answered.

Thank you, everyone, for asking them for me, so you have all my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Ms. Blaney, do you know what I was going to say? That's amazing. Laurence and Andre just told me that committee members choose six questions, and before we got to the end of the first round, our witnesses provided answers to all six of them, so thank you. I appreciate your due diligence.

We will continue with Mr. Gourde or Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

As my NDP colleague put it so well, all of our questions have already been answered. We do not disagree with the requests from our colleagues today. There is nothing more to be said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

All right.

Ms. Romanado, over to you now.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

All I want to do is congratulate my colleagues, because we have no further questions

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Go ahead, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

I have a question for my three colleagues.

Your position appears to be very clear, and I find that most interesting.

How do you interpret the fact that the members of the commission do not appear to have understood the arguments you put forward?

You could each perhaps take another minute to explain why the members of the commission are so reluctant.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'll begin by saying that I have nothing to complain about to the commission, except for the fact that this riding was created in a previous exercise that did not involve them, even though there is no real community of interest apart from Mont Saint-Bruno.

In view of this fact, what can really be done to create a sense of community in this riding, where there is no real core, apart from the topographical feature of Mont Saint-Bruno? There's no real basis for a sense of belonging, but I think the problem lies in the name.

I was just waiting to see the outcome, the final proposal, to determine whether I was going to submit this proposed name change, and in view of the fact that the City of Carignan was still included, I told myself that this was the right moment to act.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I just wanted to tell you that the members of the commission were listening.

It wasn't easy to redistribute our district In terms of boundaries. It's true that the regional municipalities in the county have been splintered. However, the fact that Vaudreuil—Soulanges was experiencing so much demographic growth made the exercise a difficult one for the commission.

That's why, even though the community development corporation submitted a brief saying that it would not really be a good idea to separate the RCMs, they didn't really have that option. That's why I said there had been consensus.

We don't understand the commission's refusal. We don't understand why we were consulted about a proposed name, and after having listened to us, they came up with another name that had nothing to do with the comments that were made. That's what we find surprising from the commission.

That's why we are here today to encourage the committee members to prepare a proper report, with recommendations. If the Federal Electoral Boundaries Commission for Quebec is unwilling to change course, the government could introduce a bill to adopt all the name changes we are proposing today.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I'd say that…

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

All right.

Ms. Blaney, would you like Mr. Garon to answer Mr. Therrien's question?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Yes, of course.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you. That's very kind and I appreciate it.

For the Lower Laurentians and the cities located there, it's important to understand that it was extremely complex for the commission, because it had added a new riding.

It came about after consultations were held during the hearings and there were a lot of criticisms. The commission was more or less required to completely redo the boundaries of this new riding

In the first electoral map that included the key riding of Les Pays-d'en-Haut, just to the north of mine, they had been very careful not to splinter any communities of interest, but had to start from scratch. In that instance, there was indeed a domino effect. As there had not been any consultations for the second part, it would appear that in spite of of their good intentions, they thought, probably wrongly, that Sainte-Anne-des-Plaines was a community of interest with the municipalities of La Rivière-du-Nord, which is not the case.

That's why the commission exists and why we are now conducting hearings. We would just like to reiterate the fact that a community of interest was unfortunately splintered, and that it's possible to return it to Mirabel without any direct electoral or demographic impact, and no domino effect. That's why the process has been complex for the commission, and I'd like to thank its members for the work they have done. Nevertheless, I think a further step is needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Do you have any other questions, Ms. Blaney?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I have no more questions.

Thank you.