Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 16th, 2023

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you. Keep up the good work.

The bells are going to ring soon, so I'll stop there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much, Ms. Gaudreau.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

As always, everything goes through the chair.

We are a couple of years now into a hybrid Parliament, and the system has been very beneficial to MPs who need to be in their ridings during sitting weeks for various reasons.

I have two questions.

The first one is whether there have been any reflections on the change, because now we see a lot more MPs actually physically back in Parliament. Now that we have the majority of MPs here, is there any change to the hybrid system?

The second is that I know that several of the MPs of this place live in rural, remote and northern regions where Internet connectivity can be a fairly significant challenge. Has the House administration considered any effort to help them improve that connectivity, and are there any particular regions in Canada where the concern around connectivity is something we should be thinking about during this time?

[Eric Janse]

Through you, Madam Chair, maybe I'll take the first question, and the second one will be for Stéphan.

In terms of changes, you're absolutely right. Both in the chamber and in committees, the vast majority of members are now here in person, where a couple of years ago it was the dead opposite. In terms of the resources required, it's about the same, whether one or two individuals are participating remotely or whether the vast majority are. It takes about the same amount of resources in terms of the House administration and our partners.

Perhaps I'll turn it over to Stéphan in terms of the connectivity challenge, especially for those in rural areas.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Thank you.

Through you, Madam Chair, yes, we are constantly looking at opportunities to help the members who are suffering from, I would say, having a lesser quality of connectivity to actually interact with Parliament.

If you're asking where the areas are, it's certainly the northern regions of Canada. We're still seeing risk as far as providing them with the availability of connectivity and making sure that they can participate as other members can.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Mr. Cooper, the floor is yours.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to direct my questions to Mr. McDonell.

Mr. McDonell, you indicated that the memorandum of understanding between the House of Commons and CSIS was signed on March 30 of this year.

Has the memorandum of understanding and any protocol, pursuant to that memorandum of understanding, been updated since May 1?

[Patrick McDonell]

Through you, Madam Chair, no.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Patrice, you were cut off or had very little time to answer a big question that Mr. Berthold posed to you. I'll give you the remaining time to elaborate on progress at Centre Block.

I guess the big overriding question is this: When are we going to be back at Centre Block?

[Michel Patrice]

I wish I had that answer.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

You could answer it in French.

[Michel Patrice]

As I said, the project is doing well right now. In terms of the excavation and in terms of the parliamentary welcome centre, that is really progressing well. In terms of the schematic design, it's also completed. We're now moving on to design development.

I'm going to say that, in terms of progress, the involvement of the working group established by the board is very helpful to receive feedback on decisions from the point of view of members and their needs. As we've often said, this is your workplace. We want to do a modern Parliament that will serve your needs. That engagement is key to the success of this project.

In terms of decisions that have been made or recommendations that have been made by the working group and recommended to the board, an example is the infill of the Hall of Honour, where there will be three additional floors for the benefit of members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Monsieur Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all the people who are with us today.

Since I only have two minutes, I'll be brief.

Mr. Speaker, you talked about the work being done on equity, diversity and inclusion.

I would like to know, sir, if the House collects disaggregated data in terms of its personnel, its employees and the services it offers. The reason I ask is that it's been a recent initiative of the Government of Canada to go further in collecting disaggregated data so that we can have an idea as to how the breakdown works.

No one's looking to blame anyone for where we are, but we're looking forward to making sure that the House is reflective of the rich diversity of our country.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

The data is collected, yes. It is. I'm not sure how else to answer that. Our HR department is very active in that. Just recently we had a report. I don't think I'm speaking out of line, but if you tune in on Thursday for the Board of Internal Economy, we'll be getting a report on that exactly.

Yes, we are very conscious of that. Canada is a very diverse nation. I've always described it as being like a fabric. It has many different materials woven into it. Those materials are people. Each one comes from different parts of the country, and we bring it all together. Our fabric is very strong. We want to make sure that we know what's in it so that we can make sure that any bills we pass will be reflective of our people.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I wanted to ask some questions about Wellington Street, but a number of my colleagues have already done so.

I'd like to add my voice to those of all the stakeholders who have stressed the importance of the Government of Canada taking ownership of Wellington Street to ensure protection not only of members of Parliament, but also of visiting Canadians.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you.

On behalf of the PROC committee members, I'll echo our appreciation for the work you do. As the previous Clerk was mentioned, I will give him a shout-out for the good work he did, and the previous Clerks, including our current interim Clerk. We know how hard it is to do the work. Well, we don't. You do it, and we appreciate it.

Mr. Speaker and the entire team, thank you.

Mr. Aubé and Sergeant-at-Arms McDonell, I know you weren't slated to be here, but you did a great job. If there's anything else you would like to share, please do share it with the clerk. We'll have it translated and circulated around.

With that, we wish you a really good rest of the day.

We'll do a really quick switchover, because our second panel is here.

Thank you.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

On behalf of my team and Mr. McDonell as well, I want to thank you all for your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We will call the meeting back to order.

We'll get started.

Thank you.

In our next panel we have the Honourable Dominic LeBlanc, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities. He is accompanied by Allen Sutherland, assistant secretary to the cabinet, machinery of government.

Minister, you will have up to five minutes for your opening comments.

Welcome to PROC.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Madam Chair, thank you for having me.

I'll try to be brief.

It's a bit intimidating. When Al and I show up here by ourselves, the entire room evacuates. Either the two of us count for those 40 people behind us or maybe this is sort of an ambush. We'll see how it goes.

Madam Chair, I have told you that I have a news conference with my colleagues Mendicino and Lametti at 1:15 on a bail reform bill, which I know will interest colleagues, so I do have a hard stop at one. That's why I'll be very brief.

Madam Chair, I am pleased to address the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs today to discuss the main estimates for the Leaders' Debates Commission. With me is Allen Sutherland, assistant secretary to the cabinet, Privy Council Office.

As you know, the Prime Minister has entrusted me with the important responsibility of supporting our democratic institutions. Canadians have many reasons to be proud of their democracy. However, as you know as well as I do, democracy is a work in progress that requires our ongoing attention.

I thank the members of this PROC committee particularly for the commitment that all of you invest every day in our democracy and our democratic institutions.

Madam Chair, the leaders debates play an essential role in federal elections and are a cornerstone of Canada's healthy, vibrant and diverse democracy.

Since its creation in 2018, the independent Leaders' Debates Commission, or LDC, has engaged Canadians during two federal elections—in 2019 and 2021—providing a platform for citizens to compare and learn more about prospective prime ministers and their ideas and vision for our country. While the Leaders' Debates Commission relies on limited administrative support from the Privy Council Office, it conducts its mandate with complete independence and in the public interest.

The commission's mandate includes organizing two leaders’ debates for every federal election, one in each official language, under the leadership of an independent commissioner. The commissioner is supported by a seven-member advisory board. The commission carried out a sound review to identify lessons learned from the 2021 leaders' debates, and the committee has discussed those findings at previous meetings. I reported the commission's recommendations to the House of Commons on May 10, 2022.

As the minister, I was instructed by the Prime Minister to examine the recommendations aimed at improving the leaders' debates and to take the necessary measures to ensure that the debates continue to reflect the public interest. I have already spoken with the commission about how to implement the report recommendations within its current mandate.

As you know, colleagues, the Right Honourable David Johnston stepped down as the debates commissioner in March of this year to take up his appointment as the independent special rapporteur on foreign interference.

I want to express, on behalf of the government and on behalf of all Canadians, my gratitude for Mr. Johnston's leadership, knowledge and experience, which he brought to the commission. He continues to serve in ways that strengthen our democracy.

The government intends, of course, to appoint a new commissioner. I'll have more to say about the timing of that in the coming weeks. We would, obviously, welcome suggestions from members of this committee and from other parliamentarians as to who could serve in this important role. In the meantime, the commission continues its work to prepare for the next set of debates.

Very briefly, Madam Chair, the subject of the appearance is the main estimates for 2023-24 on the Leaders' Debates Commission. As you will note, there's an amount of $3,453,736 for the commission. The commission will have access to $596,814 in this fiscal year. This is to fund its ongoing operations, including salaries. There is one full-time employee, I believe, and three others who work part time. The remaining $2,856,922 is a frozen allotment in the event that—of course, in a minority government—there should be an election.

Madam Chair, I know that was of huge interest to colleagues. I'll be happy to address precise questions on those financial numbers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We thank you, Minister.

We will go to six-minute rounds, starting with Mr. Cooper, followed by Ms. Sahota, Madam Gaudreau and Ms. Blaney.

Go ahead, Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Through you, Madam Chair, on May 3—days after The Globe and Mail broke the news that Michael Chong's family was being targeted by a Beijing diplomat—the Prime Minister told reporters he had directed Canada's intelligence agencies that they must immediately inform MPs of any threats against them, regardless of how serious or credible those threats are deemed to be.

Has any order in council or ministerial directive been issued to CSIS regarding these new instructions?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Madam Chair, through you to Mr. Cooper, thank you for the question.

Obviously, I have been in a number of meetings with the public safety minister, the Prime Minister and other officials. As the agencies put into effect this public directive the Prime Minister shared, I believe my colleague, the Minister of Public Safety—who obviously has legislative responsibility for CSIS—is in the process of finalizing what will be that ministerial directive.

Operationally, I can tell you, from the meetings I've been in, that CSIS is very much in a position to implement that—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

—and is contacting parliamentarians on an ongoing basis.