Evidence of meeting #25 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was journalists.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Cormier  Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission
Reusch  Executive Director, Apathy is Boring
Geist  Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-Commerce Law, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Marcoux  Information and Training Director, Quebec Press Council

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), the committee is meeting today on its study of the main estimates 2026-27 and the current state of civic resilience in Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely on Zoom.

I would ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, especially our interpreters. There is a QR code. Please watch the video.

This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For members in the room and on Zoom, if you wish to speak, raise your hand.

I would now like to welcome our first witness on the study of the main estimates 2026-27. From the Leaders' Debates Commission, we have Michel Cormier, executive director and acting commissioner.

You have five minutes, Monsieur Cormier.

Michel Cormier Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Good morning, Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting the Leaders' Debates Commission to review our 2026-27 main estimates.

The commission, as you know, is seeking a total of $3 million in funding for the 2026-27 fiscal year. It's important to note that most of that money, $2.3 million, is available to the commission only if an election is called. The rest, $739,000, is for the salaries and operational costs of the commission during that time.

We're not going to spend the majority of that money unless an election is called. The bulk of that amount—$2.3 million—is a reserve fund that is accessible only if an election takes place. This amount is used to cover the costs of preparing for and producing the debates.

The remaining $739,000 will be used to pay the commission's salaries and operating expenses for the next fiscal year.

In accordance with our mandate, cost-effectiveness continues to be a driving principle of the commission. We succeeded in reducing the costs of the debates in 2025. They amounted to just below $1.1 million, which is substantially less than the 2019 and 2021 debates and well below the $1.8-million production budget ceiling.

Most of the work of the secretariat is done remotely, including meetings with stakeholders and its advisory board, in order to reduce travel expenses.

The election of a third consecutive minority government also requires the commission to be ready to organize debates as soon as the next election is called.

This work includes preparing a contract for the production of the debates, as well as consulting with political parties, various experts and television networks. It also involves liaising with security agencies, and identifying and evaluating potential venues for the debates. We also work with the team of academics from the Canadian Election Study to develop public opinion polls that are used to improve the quality of the debates.

As I remarked before this committee last December, we are constantly working to improve the debates. In 2025, the commission adopted a simple format with only one moderator, instead of the traditional panel of journalists. The results were telling. Leaders had more time to exchange views, and voters were better served in gaining information crucial to their choice at the ballot box. Reviews and ratings were also up. A record 19.4 million people tuned in to the debates.

To address issues related to the 2025 debates, the commission is proposing a number of improvements. These are set out in the report we published last fall.

With respect to participation criteria, the recommendation is to use the final list of confirmed candidates published by Elections Canada for political parties, relying on the criterion of endorsing candidates in at least 90% of federal ridings. As for media accreditation, the commission recommends continuing to provide on-site accreditation but to no longer be responsible for the leaders' press conferences, which have traditionally taken place after the debates, or provide a venue for that purpose.

In closing, let me return to the $3 million we are seeking for 2026-27. Again, that is the planned spending if there is an election in that period. Otherwise, our projected operating budget for the year will be $739,000.

Thank you.

I'd be pleased to answer your questions now.

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

Thank you so much.

First up is Mr. Van Popta from the Conservatives for six minutes, please.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Cormier, for being here. It nice to see you again. It seems like it was not that long ago that you were here, being grilled by this committee. Thank you for the work that you do.

Just so that I'm clear on this, you're saying that you're seeking roughly $3.5 million. I'm sorry I don't have the exact number.

11:05 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

It's $3 million this year.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

It's $3 million, but if there's no election in the next fiscal year, your expenditure will be only $739,000.

11:05 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

That's right.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Okay, so, what happened in the year that has almost passed now? I understand we're at the end of our fiscal year. There was no election. Well, there was one in April 2025.

11:05 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Was that within this fiscal year?

Here's my question: Have you spent all of the money that was budgeted for you?

11:05 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

No, actually. Over the four-year cycle of the last election, we spent about $4.3 million or $4.4 million—we're waiting for the end results—out of $5.5 million. We're returning to the government $1 million or $1.1 million at the end of this fiscal year. It's been that way for the first three cycles. We don't spend the whole allotted money over four years—ever.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Okay. Now you're saying that the expenditures have been dropping over the last couple of years. To what do you credit that?

11:05 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

We have reduced the staffing. We have two employees at the commission now. I work part time. We have a full-time administrator who deals with contracts, financial reporting to the government and all of these issues, which do take a lot of work. Then we hire contract employees on a needs basis for special projects, whether it's communications or to develop the production criteria for the next debates. We are mindful about that.

As I said, for the debates themselves, we've reduced the cost of the production of the debates from $1.7 million for the first two cycles of 2019 and 2021 to $1.1 million. It's a saving of about $600,000. Basically, the main difference is that we held the debates in the CBC/Radio-Canada building in Montreal, which has all of the equipment to produce such programs already built into the infrastructure. Before, the first two debates were held at the Canadian Museum of History in Gatineau, so of course we had travel costs for the teams who came here, had to build a set and also had to rent production equipment to actually broadcast the debates.

We've managed to save a lot by having the debates in a place that is a production facility already. We have also tightened up the translation costs for the debates. We offer the debates in 13 different languages, including five indigenous languages, so that takes a lot of interpretation. We managed to bring those costs down by a good number, I think.

This explains why the full amount is not being used for the full political cycle.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Thank you.

I want to return to something that came up for discussion the last time you were here, and you made mention of it: the postdebate media scrum. I think a lot of Canadians would agree with the statement that that's the best part. It became a—

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

It depends for who—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Well, maybe it's not for the participants, but it certainly is for Canadians tuning in. Maybe it's because that's when they really see the rough and tumble of the media and how the prospective leaders stand up to the scrutiny.

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

Although ratings are not—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

However, now you're cancelling it altogether, I understand. Why would you do that? It seems a bit defeatist.

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

At this point, it's a recommendation for the next commissioner. It's not official policy now.

Yes, we are recommending that the commission not organize scrums. This is because we're in a media environment where we have a lot of different media actors that don't fit into any categories. That has caused some tension and confusion in the accreditation process and in the scrums afterward—in the management of the scrums.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

Just so I have clarity on this, are you saying that you don't want to manage the scrum? Does that mean there will be no scrum, or will it still go ahead?

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

We will not organize the scrum. If the parties want to actually scrum after the debates, they're free to do it. Our position is that the campaign begins again after the debates are over, but then it would be the responsibility of the campaigns to actually organize that.

We feel that's the best solution to make sure the attention is on the debates and not on the peripheral issues, and it's not in the mandate of the commission to do so.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley Township—Fraser Heights, BC

I'm sorry to interrupt, but the scrum isn't peripheral issues. Those are the issues that the media think are important.

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director and Acting Commissioner, Leaders' Debates Commission

Michel Cormier

They are important issues, but I think the commission is in a position where it's difficult to ensure that there's an environment that works well for everybody in that case.

We've made that recommendation, and we'll see whether the next commissioner agrees with it or not.

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

Thank you so much.

We'll turn now to Mr. Wilkinson for six minutes, please.

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver—Capilano, BC

Thank you for coming today.

I think a lot of this is actually pretty straightforward, and I assume the answer to this question just has to do with categorization. In the comparison of the main estimates, I noticed that in 2024-25, information was $190,000. Then it jumps to $2 million, and then it goes to $1.8 million. Professional services was at $2.5 million, and then it goes to $750,000 and then $535,000.

Can you explain those numbers to me and why they're changing so much?