Evidence of meeting #32 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Hawara  Assistant Secretary to Cabinet, Machinery of Government and Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office
Pereira  Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office
Steven MacKinnon  Minister of Transport and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

11:25 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

Third parties can sell their products wherever they wish to, so it could be legitimate sales and sources. They do have revenue streams for that.

However, when it comes to regulated activities, they would not be permitted to use those funds. They would need to provide some financial statements to demonstrate where that money comes from. It's not necessarily nefarious if a foreign entity were to purchase something that the third party produces. It may be a genuine, legitimate transaction.

However, there could be a bit of a challenge if it's their general revenue but it is to be used for regulated activities. They would need to report on that and provide their financial statements in terms of demonstrating the source. If 90% of the purchases are coming from some other country, that may raise a question or a flag on the part of Elections Canada.

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

I'll have to cut in.

We'll turn to Ms. Fancy for five minutes, please.

Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you very much.

I'd like to comment that for once I think I'm agreeing with my colleague from across the way there, Mr. Cooper, in terms of his line of reasoning.

For today, though, I'd like to talk a bit about mis- and disinformation and how we can help some of our vulnerable populations in our country. I'm a former educator. I really worry about young girls that I've taught and about my own daughter, who is growing up in an environment where what she sees online might not be trustworthy. Having seen first-hand some of the mis- and disinformation throughout the election—this was my first election—I'm increasingly concerned about how quickly these technologies are evolving.

This bill does a really good job in addressing AI-generated impersonation and deepfakes. In areas with limited access to local media—where I'm from in Nova Scotia is quite rural—where residents might rely more heavily on social media, I'm asking if you feel that these provisions will be sufficient to protect voters from increasingly sophisticated digital misinformation.

11:30 a.m.

Assistant Secretary to Cabinet, Machinery of Government and Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Cathy Hawara

Thank you for the question.

I think there are a number of measures in this package that will address the concerns that have been raised.

Perhaps I'll start by reminding the committee that we are also thinking about Canada's plan to protect democracy when we are thinking about this particular piece of legislation. Of course, one of the pillars of that plan is a more informed and prepared citizenry. I think that is important. Indeed, the bill proposes to expand the current prohibitions against impersonation to include impersonations through AI and deepfakes. We recognize that this is a threat, and it's a growing threat. This is something that the bill will make extremely clear: that those kinds of impersonations are unauthorized.

I think the measure that I referred to earlier around false information is also relevant in this context. It is certainly meant to address an emerging threat and a real potential harm to the integrity of the electoral system. This will address situations where an individual intends to affect the outcome of the election—the results of the election—and the conduct of the election itself. If they know that the statement they are making is false or misleading, and it is a statement about the core elements of the electoral system—who can vote, how they can vote, how to register to vote, the process for counting votes and ultimately the eventual results of the election—these are enhanced protections for our electoral system that the commissioner of Canada elections will be able to administer.

Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you very much for the answer to that question. I do believe that this bill seeks to strengthen confidence in the electoral system.

As well, in talking with some of the residents in my riding, they've talked about changes to riding names and some of the concerns they might have there. Changes to riding names have raised concerns, including among seniors, some of the different heritage partners within my riding and indigenous communities. I wonder how important that is to the electoral district names and how that reflects local history or local identity.

Should there be some stronger safeguards or consultation requirements to ensure those perspectives are properly considered?

11:30 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

Thank you for the question.

The names of electoral districts are determined by the independent electoral commissions at each decennial exercise. During that process, members can propose names and put forward objections, but ultimately those decisions are made by the independent commissions.

However, members of Parliament can, between those decennial exercises, propose name changes to the ridings for Parliament's approval. In previous decennial exercises, that has been the case, whether through government bills or private members' bills. In 2014 and, before that, in 2004, there have been bills that have changed the names of ridings. That is within the purview of members of Parliament to propose and for Parliament to approve.

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

Thank you so much.

We will now turn to Madame Normandin for two and a half minutes.

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

I'd like to get back to the question I asked earlier about the publication or use of confidential data.

What we've unfortunately learned from Alberta is that there have been cases where women who are victims of violence from partners found guilty of that violence have had to move to protect the confidentiality of their address.

Does the act already contain provisions to ensure the confidentiality of addresses?

If not, can we make amendments to allow requests for exclusion from the electoral roll on grounds that would justify such exclusion?

Under the current act, could a woman with a spouse known to be abusive, for example, request that her name not be passed on to candidates—who would legitimately be entitled to this information—to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands?

11:35 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

I don't believe it's through this bill, but there is an existing requirement in the Canada Elections Act.

Should an elector wish to be removed from the list, they can, in writing, request it of the Chief Electoral Officer for a period of time. They will still receive the voter information card. It doesn't prevent them from voting, but they can make that request.

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

I'm going to move on to a completely different matter. In the House, during questions and comments at second reading of the bill, the minister told me that there was some willingness to review public funding for political parties.

Are you aware of the annual amounts granted as tax credits to individuals who make donations, and the breakdown of these amounts by political party?

Does that information exist?

11:35 a.m.

Assistant Secretary to Cabinet, Machinery of Government and Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Cathy Hawara

I'm not sure. I can get back to you on that. I suspect that it doesn't exist or isn't broken down that way, but we will check.

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

If the information exists, I'd like you to commit to sending it to us, please.

Thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle

Thank you so much.

We'll now go to Mr. Jackson for five minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses. I appreciate their being here today.

I have a hypothetical question that's a bit different from Mr. Cooper's. If I were a foreign entity that purchased one million dollars' worth of consulting services from a third party in Canada, how would this act ensure that this money is not used towards influencing a Canadian election?

11:35 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

There are requirements for third parties. They need to register if they wish to spend $500 or more in the election. Then they're subject to a variety of reporting requirements.

I can look up the maximum threshold if you'll give me a moment.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Sure.

11:35 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

There are also, as you know, pre-election and election-period spending limits for third parties.

What this bill would do—I'll repeat—is this: Third parties wishing to participate under the act as a registered political party could, during the election period, use funds from Canadians and permanent residents. If those funds are 10% or less of their overall revenues, they would be able to use those revenues, with reporting requirements providing transparency to Elections Canada so it knows what the source of those funds are.

For a very large third party that generates a lot of business, that would be part of their financial statements, and that might raise some questions at Elections Canada in terms of where those funds are coming from. They could be legitimate sources of funding.

I don't know if that answers your question.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

It sort of does.

What I'm curious about is this: I'm sure the consulting services, in my hypothetical scenario, would be legitimate, but if they're being purchased before the pre-writ period, before the year required.... If we're in a four-year election cycle—so an election is in year four—if they're purchased in year two of that cycle, do they fall under the 10% cap as it's set out in this bill?

11:35 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

Third parties can participate outside of election periods. That wouldn't be regulated. It's regulated during the pre-election and election periods.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Then, currently, it would not fall under the provision of the act if it was in year two.

11:40 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

If that money came in the year before, if it's the fiscal or calendar year that they use, that would be part of the calculation. The year before the election, if that money was coming in and was part of their revenue stream—

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

That's right.

11:40 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

—that would be captured as part of that threshold.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

However, it wouldn't be if it was two years before an election.

11:40 a.m.

Director, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Rachel Pereira

I will return to this committee with a confirmation of that response to your question—