Evidence of meeting #33 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was political.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
You recommend reviewing what was done to that effect in Bill C‑65, then.
Is that correct?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Yes, I indicated that in my brief.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I will now turn to the five-day notice for regulated fundraising events. The bill seeks to completely remove the five-day notice. That's our understanding.
Generally speaking, can you tell me whether the information in the notice is similar to that in the final report?
Are there more differences in the number of people, the amounts collected and so on?
Is it still similar, oddly enough?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
I'm not aware of any differences. I can look into that and get back to the committee, but I'm not in a position to answer right now.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle
Thank you very much.
You're always the best student, always under time. Thank you so much.
I understand Mr. Cooper and Mr. Jackson will be splitting their time.
You have five minutes, but I will leave that to you both to handle.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Mr. Perrault, your answer to my last question was that where third parties are subject to the exception, and they can use their own funds for their non-contribution revenue, there's nothing in the bill that prevents the source of those funds from being foreign.
What is to stop foreign actors from exploiting this exception by directing money to third parties disguised as the purchase of goods or services, funds that would be treated as non-contribution revenue and therefore could be spent by third parties as part of their own funds for regulated activities to influence our elections?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
I would answer in terms of two aspects. One is that this would be an offence under the act. Of course, it needs to be caught and prosecuted, but it is illegal under the act.
Second—
Conservative
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
It is illegal, and removing the—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Just because it is illegal, that doesn't mean it hasn't been happening. It is fair to say that it is illegal, but that doesn't change anything.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
My second point—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
I don't think the first point addresses the question.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
In order to close the regime, you would also have to remove the ability of individuals to use their own funds, because individuals could receive illegally, as in your scenario, revenues that they would describe—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
There's that exception, but I'm asking you about this specific exception.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
If there's a hole here and there's a hole there, there's no usefulness in closing one.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
We'll deal with one hole at a time. Just answer my question.
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
I'm not here to argue with anyone on this committee about this point. This is an issue. There are always ways for monies to flow around. There are ways to make this regime tighter, but there are consequences to that.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
On that point, if we were to look at this to make it tighter, what would you recommend?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
First of all, I would not recommend making it tighter, but if the committee wanted to make it tighter—
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Perrault, it is nice to see you again.
The bill talks about making sure that there's no disinformation and misinformation and that Canadians have faith in the system. The last time we were here, I think we were discussing the security of ballot boxes. We were talking specifically about special ballot boxes and the security protocols around those. I asked you if they ever leave returning offices, to which Ms. Duquette, who was with you, replied “No”, and then you stated, “That's unless they are national ballots. Then they need to be shipped to headquarters ahead of day zero.”
What is a national ballot?
Chief Electoral Officer, Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
It's a ballot cast by an elector outside of his riding. He's working for a short period, or it's a student who is studying or someone who is travelling outside of their riding. They can cast a ballot and they can apply for what we call a “national ballot” outside of their electoral district. This is provided for them.