Evidence of meeting #49 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was strike.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Peter Massy  Vice-President, Burnaby, Telecommunications Workers Union
Anthony Pollard  President, Hotel Association of Canada
Peter Barnes  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Nick Jennery  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Council of Grocery Distributors
David Bradley  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
Graham Cooper  Senior Vice-President, Canadian Trucking Alliance
Sid Shniad  Researcher, Burnaby, Telecommunications Workers Union
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Christine Lafrance

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

This comes out of a discussion yesterday, partly instigated by Mr. Lessard, about how procedure is being developed by the committee, and some concerns I have regarding....

My concerns are probably similar to yours, Mr. Silva, although I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I think we're better off to discuss our agenda and procedure within the larger group, or a larger group composed of more members of the committee than just four members. There are a lot of very important issues we have to deal with in this committee. Each of us, even within our parties, has different views on what those issues are.

For example, your party has three critics, I believe, in three different areas on this committee.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

We're all critics.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

All four of you are? Are you saying all Liberals are critics...?

At any rate, there is a wide variety of views to be represented, and I don't think having four people meet to decide the direction of the committee or even to work on that is productive, especially when you have to bring it back. And as you said, nothing is unanimous in this committee, let's face it.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you.

Mr. Lessard.

5:35 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Chair, as you said earlier, once the committee has met, it comes back here. There are of course one or two matters on which we haven't agreed. At that point, it was the Standing Committee on Human Resources that arbitrated and decided. We've cleared a lot of ground with regard to planning the tour. The purpose of the idea of working in this way is to avoid situations in which one party could catch the others off guard, as the Conservatives did the last time. We reversed decisions that had been made. On three occasions, as I told you yesterday, we went over the same motion until it was changed, and it was changed in accordance with what the Chair decided when he ruled.

As regards Bill C-257, we find ourselves in an unbalanced situation. Why? Because there's been some improvisation. As one Liberal colleague said earlier, when a motion is announced, we can debate it together, involving one representative per party. That enables us to return to our caucuses to arbitrate the issue and avoid improvisation.

For some time now, we've seen that the Conservatives' motions, like the one introduced earlier, have been improvised. I wouldn't suddenly introduce an idea that I had just thought of in order to make a motion. First I'd reflect on the matter with my colleagues in order to determine whether it made sense, whether it was consistent with the rules and whether it was of a kind to advance the business of the committee in a constructive manner. Representing one's political position is not everything; you also have to try to advance the committee's business.

Coming back to what my colleague is proposing here, as our friend Mr. Silva said, some committees don't have steering committees. Here, in this committee, we tend to improvise, and that yields the results that we've seen. In my view, it would be prudent to make our committee, which already exists, work. Two hours have been scheduled for tomorrow morning. That should enable us to do an acceptable job and to come back here to make a coherent recommendation. Then we could determine whether it's worth the trouble. For my part, I wouldn't take any other initiative than that one.

I ask our colleague to withdraw his motion, which would enable us to talk with our people and to assess what will happen tomorrow following the two hours of business we'll conduct together. We haven't rejected what was moved yesterday: we've learned of it. Can we give ourselves the time to consider it? Tomorrow morning, a number of proposed elements will be accepted. We'll discuss other aspects.

Mr. Chair, I invite our colleague to withdraw his motion and to reflect on the matter. We will do the same. Let us stop improvising.

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

I'd certainly like to point out, Mr. Lessard, for the sake of our new members, that we did have agreement that we wouldn't bring forward motions, but that was broken by every single party. So let's just be clear here...is exactly what is happening.

In terms of what was done before Christmas, it was based on a motion adopted by this committee that witnesses....

No, you may not like the motion, but that was a motion adopted by the committee that we moved forward on. This committee has been operating based on how motions are set forward and put in place. That is the way it's been operating.

We had an agreement that we wouldn't put forward motions, and yet every party has. We have 30 motions on the docket.

I would say once again that the intent of the committee has been to work that way, but it hasn't always worked that way, and I agree that we should try to move in a direction where we can work together.

For the clarification of the Liberals who are new to this committee, the way we've been operating is fulfilling the mandate of the requirement. If there has been a motion, we move forward on that motion. The question has been whether another motion has come forward and trumped that existing one.

I may not like it any better than you do, Mr. Lessard, but that is in fact the way it has been happening.

Mr. Martin.

5:40 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I tend to agree that where this committee has been effective and has got some work done--and it has got some work done--we have met as a subcommittee to air out some of the positions of each of the parties and had, I thought, a respectful and thoughtful conversation amongst ourselves. I think we achieved some things there.

The object is to make this committee work and to get some work done on behalf of the people of Canada and our constituents. The more we can use a process to get us there, the better.

Where I've been frustrated, Mr. Chair, is when on a couple of occasions—this is why I said it worked relatively well as opposed to perfectly well—an agenda arrived at committee where obviously decisions had been made somewhere that were a surprise to me. I felt I wasn't given an opportunity to really get into that and find out why, how, etc., and how that would impact further work that some of us wanted to get done.

But I thought overall we got some work done. We're into a fairly contentious piece of business right now with Bill C-257, and we have to expect that there will be some manoeuvering, shall we say, going on. But overall, I think we've been achieving some success, and I think the success has been achieved because we have been meeting in that smaller group from time to time, a subcommittee, to air out and deal with some of those areas that might be contentious and get them out of the way or at least addressed so that we can move forward.

It's about relationships, and about building relationships. For me, that's what happened there and caused the committee to be more constructive, proactive, and able to get some things done.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Mr. Lessard.

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Chair, could we read the motion first?

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

He moves that the routine motion adopted on May 4, 2006—that the committee on agenda and procedure be composed of the chair, two vice-chairs, and one member of the New Democratic Party—be withdrawn, and that the committee meets as a whole to discuss agenda and procedure.

Mr. Lessard and then Mr. Silva.

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

I had announced that I would be expressing my opinion. That's why I wanted the motion read. In view of the office of our party's whip, it is not admissible. It should have been the subject of a 48-hour notice, I believe, as in the case of other motions.

Mr. Chair, if you decide to maintain your position, we will appeal from that ruling and submit the matter to the Speaker of the House.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Mr. Lessard, it is a housekeeping motion. It's not in the Standing Orders. We're not changing the Standing Orders, this is routine proceedings. As Mr. Silva and other committee members said, this varies from committee to committee. Once again, it's a direction of the committee that we decide to go in.

Mr. Silva.

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON

You've been challenged, Mr. Chair.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

I've been challenged.

The question is, does this motion stand?

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Is that what he's doing?

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Yes.

Does the decision of the chair—to let the motion stand as read—stand?

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

May we vote on the motion, Mr. Lake?

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

We're voting on your motion. You just made a superceding motion. You just challenged the chair.

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

On admissibility.

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Precisely. Let's go; let's vote.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

So once again, we're voting.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

“Yes” supports the chair and “no” supports Mr. Lessard?

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

That's correct.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Can we have a recorded vote, please?

5:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

We're going to vote on the merits and dispose of the matter immediately.

Mr. Chair—