Human Resources Committee on June 13th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

We'll move on to Mr. Lake, as a final questioner, for five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I have a quick question to do with the slide on page 10, regarding seasonal workers. I'm just wondering if there's any research by season.

I imagine that most seasonal work takes place in the summer. But is there a component that takes place in the winter, or any other seasons specifically?

[Philip Cross]

Certainly. In fact we saw a good example of it this winter in the west. The oil and gas rigs couldn't get out. They need the land to be frozen to roll these big trucks over. You're not just driving down the 401; they need frozen muskeg, or whatever, and they didn't get it in January and February. As conditions started to freeze up in March, it came back.

There would be ski hill operators--

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Do you have any idea on what the percentage would be of summer versus winter for seasonal work?

[Philip Cross]

No, but I'm sure we could calculate that.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

It would just be interesting to see.

[Philip Cross]

I agree, most of it is going to be summer. It's fishing and things like that.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

And there would be an unpredictability to it as well, I would imagine, in both seasons, depending on what the weather is like.

[Philip Cross]

Very much so. Some years the ski hill operators just don't get going in southern Ontario. I imagine this winter was an awful one for them.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Going to slide number 9, which is an interesting slide, on the bottom again, the labour productivity gap, you mention that there are differences in the way it's measured that cause problems with really interpreting this information. There's a pronounced split that begins in 2000. I'm wondering if there have been any changes in the way the productivity has been calculated that would have caused that split.

[Philip Cross]

No. This is a consistent time series. In fact, we go out of our way to make sure that both the GDP and labour input are measured in exactly the same way in Canada and the U.S.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

So regardless of the fact that there may be differences in the way it's measured, does that split not definitely indicate dropping productivity relative to that of the States over the last five years?

[Philip Cross]

I don't think I said there were differences in the way it was measured; in fact, just the opposite. I think I was saying they're very consistent. These are produced to be comparable. In fact, when we produce the Canadian data, we produce the U.S. data and put it in the same Statistics Canada daily. We are encouraging you to compare the two; they are totally compatible.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay. I thought Ms. Webber, when she was explaining it, said there were some differences.

[Maryanne Webber]

The idea there was to put the emphasis on comparing trends. When you compare the trends, it's pretty robust.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Looking at slide 4, your basic unemployment slide, it's obvious it's been going down for the last 12 or 14 years. Over this time series, is there any change to the definition of the way unemployment is calculated?

[Philip Cross]

No. That's why it starts in 1976. There was a change from 1975 to 1976, but since 1976 it's been fully comparable. There's a slight difference in comparing Canada and the U.S., because we include 15-year-olds and the U.S. just picks up at 16. Since younger people always have higher unemployment rates, that puts our rate always a little higher than that of the U.S.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

As a final question, taking the whole package as a broad package, it seems there are some areas of concern. I definitely have some areas of concern, looking at some of the statistics and some of the information. Is there a particular area you would deem the most critical, or are there a couple of areas you would deem critical in terms of our future labour needs?

[Maryanne Webber]

It's a big question. I think we've pointed to the whole issue of the decline of the working-age population as being critical. Literacy, which is something we may be able to do something about, particularly literacy with respect to the new immigrant population whose mother tongue is not English or French, is an important area.

I'm not sure what I can suggest about seasonal work, other than that it is quite interesting that we've seen an increase in temporary employment. There may be something there with respect to what could we do to stabilize employment, to keep more people in the labour market, and to offset those declines. Of course, there's the fact that even though the overall Canadian participation rate is very high, we have key groups in which there is low participation. Bringing them into the labour force could do quite a lot to offset what we see as future shortages. But I don't think I'd be able to weight them and rank-order them.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I want to thank all of you very much for coming today and talking to us about your relationship and about Stats Canada concerning unemployability. We appreciate the data and the time that went into preparing it. It's given us another frame of reference as we move forward in this study, so thank you very much.

[Maryanne Webber]

We're very happy to be here. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I realize some information was requested from individuals. Would you, as I'm sure you will, provide it to the clerk? She'll make sure all the members receive that information.

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I know that sometimes our committee ends quickly. However, a motion was presented which I think we should vote on today. The motion calls upon the Minister of Human Resources and Social Development and on the labour minister to appear before the committee, but separately.

It is not that we were disappointed with their answers, but it is very difficult to conduct an in-depth study when two ministers are present at the same time. I think that if they appear separately, it will help us better understand the way they perceive the work of the Committee on Human Resources and Social Development.

I would like us to make a decision on that matter, so we can invite the ministers again as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

I just want to point out something in terms of motions.

Ms. Brown, you made a suggestion before that we have a number of motions before us here, but we're also engaged right now in an employability study, which is going to take us into the fall--this does relate to your motion, Mr. Lessard.

Ms. Brown's suggestion was that we should defer all motions until after we've finished looking at the employability study so we can focus on that particular issue. I note that Mr. Lessard had suggested the ministers come back before the summer break. I don't believe there is enough time right now in terms of where we're at, but certainly we would love to have them back in the fall.

Ms. Brown, did you want to add to what you were suggesting?