Evidence of meeting #57 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was leave.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Frank Vermaeten  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Louis Beauséjour  Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Liliane Binette  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations Branch, Service Canada

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

I now call to order the 57th hearing of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. This is Thursday, November 19, 2009.

Mr. Martin.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I think, Speaker, if you will seek it, you will find that--

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

I'm not the Speaker. I'm just the Chair.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I'm just practising for when I become the House leader or something in the government--it's all in my dreams.

But you'll find, if you seek it, unanimous consent to amend the motion we passed at the last meeting, to state that instead of reporting on November 24, we would report that motion to the House tomorrow.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Thank you.

I have had discussions with various members sitting around the table to see whether this is acceptable. This is part of Mr. Martin's motion. Mr. Martin is asking for the day to be moved to the previous day for technical reasons. Is there any discussion on the matter? Are there any objections to Mr. Martin's request?

(Motion agreed to)

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Thank you very much.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Appearing today is the Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development.

Madam Minister, would you like to introduce the persons who are accompanying you? Then we'll hear your presentation. Thank you.

3:30 p.m.

Haldimand—Norfolk Ontario

Conservative

Diane Finley ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to introduce Frank Vermaeten, Louis Beauséjour, and Liliane Binette from the Department of HRSDC, who have been working on this legislation for us.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Madam Minister, you now have...how many minutes?

3:30 p.m.

A voice

There is no time for--

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Oh, there's no time for you, Madam Minister. You just get to answer questions....

Madam Minister, we're all ears to hear your presentation. Thank you.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

It's with a great deal of pleasure that I appear today to discuss our government's latest initiative to help Canadian workers and their families, Bill C-56, the Fairness for the Self-Employed Act.

Prime Minister Harper committed in 2008 to extend maternity and parental benefits to the self-employed. He said then:

Self-employed Canadians--and those who one day hope to be--shouldn't have to choose between starting a family and starting a business because of government policy. They should be able to pursue their dreams--both as entrepreneurs and as parents.

After additional consultations and listening directly to self-employed Canadians, we recognize the need to go even further and extend access to all EI special benefits.

Currently, self-employed Canadians have little or no income protection to cope with major life events such as the birth or adoption of a child, a parent or a child falling gravely ill, or even falling ill themselves. The Fairness For the Self-Employed Act will provide all EI special benefits--maternity, parental, sickness, and compassionate care--to self-employed Canadians on a voluntary basis. We've not just met our commitment; we've exceeded it.

Public research reinforces that the majority of self-employed Canadians want access to EI special benefits. In fact, just the other week, I received a petition from almost 1,000 Canadians asking for access to EI special benefits.

Self-employed Canadians asked for this bill, and for the first time in Canadian history, we are giving them just that. It's the fair and right thing to do and it's also good family policy.

Self-employed Canadians total 2.6 million in Canada and form 15% of the total labour market, and this number is growing. They're an integral part of our economy and are key contributors to innovation, investment, and job creation. They are playing a vital role in our continued productivity and in our economic recovery.

The self-employed are a very diverse group. They include farmers, tradespeople, those who run home businesses, lawyers, architects, and people who run our corner stores, to name just a few.

Increasingly, the self-employed are women. The number of enterprises led by women is expected to top one million next year.

Access to these benefits is especially important for them: one-third of self-employed women in Canada are of child-bearing age. This bill will mean that women will no longer have to delay or forgo having children altogether for fear it would be impossible to handle both responsibilities at the same time. It will mean that self-employed Canadians will no longer have to miss their babies' first words or first steps.

And self-employed Canadians will now have the option to take care of an elderly parent or a child who has fallen gravely ill. Everyone in this room knows the importance of spending the last few weeks with a loved one and being able to care for them.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Are there problems with translation?

I'm sorry, Madam Minister. There is a problem with the translation.

Please continue.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Thank you.

Our Conservative government knows that families are the foundation of this great country. And now self-employed Canadians will no longer have to choose between their family and work responsibilities. Like all workers, self-employed Canadians facing important life events need peace of mind regarding their financial security. This bill provides them with just that.

Madam Chair, let me briefly explain how the system would work.

Overall, special benefits for the self-employed would mirror those available to salaried employees under the EI system. Under the proposed legislation, self-employed Canadians who opt into the program would pay the same EI premium rate as salaried employees. For 2010, that premium rate would be $1.73 per $100 of insurable earnings. They would not be required to pay the employer portion of premiums as they would not have access to EI regular benefits. They would face similar benefit duration periods, income replacement rates, maximum insurable earnings, treatment of earnings, and waiting periods.

However, there would be some differences. Those who choose to take advantage of special benefits would be required to opt into the program at least one year prior to claiming benefits. They would also be responsible for making premium payments for the tax year in which they apply to the program. For example, someone registering in May 2010 would be able to claim benefits on May 1, 2011.

However, we are providing some room for the first year. Those who apply before April 1, 2010, would be able to collect benefits as early as January 1, 2011.

To access EI special benefits, self-employed individuals would need to earn a minimum of $6,000 during the preceding calendar year. As the self-employed do not report hours of work, this number has been arrived at by converting 600 hours on an earnings basis using a representative minimum wage of $10 an hour, since 600 hours is the number of hours required by salaried workers to access existing EI special benefits.

It's important to note that the self-employed could opt out of the program as long as they've never claimed benefits. If they've claimed benefits, however, they would need to continue to contribute on self-employed earnings for as long as they're self-employed. This treats the self-employed in the same way that the regular EI program treats paid employees. We think this is fair.

In the province of Quebec, our Conservative government is offering the self-employed that ability to take advantage of the sickness and compassionate care benefits for the first time in history. Currently, the only choice Quebeckers have if they need to take care of a gravely ill relative, or if they fall ill themselves, is private insurance which can be very expensive.

Our government is offering peace of mind with a more affordable option. This bill takes into account that, in Quebec, self-employed residents already have access to maternity and parental benefits through the Quebec Parental Insurance Plan.

Rates in Quebec have been adjusted to take into account the provincial maternity and parental benefit plan. Self-employed workers in Quebec who choose to take advantage of the program would pay the same EI premiums as other employees in the province. The 2010 EI premium rate in Quebec will be $1.36 per $100 of insurable earnings.

I want to reinforce that the decision to opt into the EI program is entirely voluntary. There is no obligation for the self-employed to take advantage of these new benefits.

This bill is yet another example of how our government is providing support and choice to Canadian families. Our government believes that self-employed Canadians should not have to choose between their families and their business responsibilities, and this bill will have a significant impact on their lives and their families.

Don't just take it from me: the response to this bill has been overwhelmingly positive. The Grain Growers of Canada, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the Coalition of BC Businesses, the Certified General Accountants Association of Canada, the Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists, and the Independent Contractors and Businesses Association are just some examples of organizations that represent self-employed Canadians and that support this important bill.

This is one of the most significant enhancements to the EI program in a decade. It is part of a series of timely enhancements that we've already made to ensure that the employment insurance program remains responsive to the needs of Canadians.

Our economic action plan is geared towards helping Canadian workers and their families get through this global economic downturn. We're providing a timely and unprecedented investment of $8.3 billion to strengthen EI benefits and enhance the availability of training, including outside EI.

In closing, Madam Chair, I'd like to thank the committee for its work on our last bill, Bill C-50, which recently passed. It provides between five and 20 additional weeks of EI to long-tenured workers who've worked hard and paid premiums for years, but who now need a hand up.

I urge all members of this committee to support self-employed Canadians and their families by supporting Bill C-56.

I'd now be pleased to answer your questions. Merci.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

This will be a first round of seven minutes.

Mr. Savage, you'll open the round.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Minister, and thanks to your hard-working officials, for coming here today.

As you know, we have indicated in the House and in this committee our support for this bill in principle; I think a lot of people are looking at it and saying that it looks like a good thing, but there are questions. A number of organizations that were pleased to see it have questions. I met this morning with the CGA association, the certified general accountants, and I've met with others who are saying they think this is good and want to see it go forward, but there are some questions.

The first question I would have is in terms of the sustainability of this program. Has the chief actuary done an evaluation of this bill?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'm sorry; I just had to consult my staff.

The actuary within the skills and employment branch has examined these numbers.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I'm reading from the website of the Office of the Chief Actuary of Canada. The website says:Whenever a bill is introduced before Parliament that has a significant impact on the financial status of a public pension plan or social program falling under the statutory responsibilities of the Chief Actuary--

This includes Human Resources and Skills Development Canada.

--the OCA must submit an actuarial report valuing this impact to the appropriate minister.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'm sorry; I'd be happy to get that answer for you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Pardon me?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'm sorry, but I don't have the answer now.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Can you tell me, then, what actuarial work has been done? Can you make that public?

3:45 p.m.

Frank Vermaeten Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Thank you.

The actuary--the same actuary who does the actual work for the EI account--and his team were completely involved in all the calculations and estimates that went into this program.

We have a policy group that provides estimates and we have an actuarial group that carefully examines everything and confirms those calculations. That in turn goes to our chief financial officer, so I think the numbers have been very rigorously examined throughout HRSDC.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Okay. Can you release those numbers?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'm not sure they're in a form to be released.