Evidence of meeting #57 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was leave.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
That's the estimated cost. I haven't seen that figure made public. Is this the first time it's been made public?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I don't think we've made it public. It's a range. It's an estimate.
Can it change a little bit? Yes, as the minister said, it's possible that it actually could be closer to zero and it could possibly be a little higher. But we have a fairly firm idea here because we know that the costs and the premiums are very closely related. The more people who join, the more premiums we'll receive, and the higher the benefits will be, and vice versa.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
I understand that. Thank you for that. It's the first time I've heard an actual number.
My other question, then, is in terms of the actuary. The chief actuary does do some work for the Employment Insurance Commission. Would it not have been prudent to bring the chief actuary in to have a look at this before it was presented to Parliament?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Indeed, the chief actuary did look at it. The chief actuary is--
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Pardon me? The chief actuary did look at it and the minister didn't know that an hour ago?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Well, the chief actuary has multiple functions.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
He has a role as the chief actuary for the account. He also works for HRSDC as our chief actuary when we do our policy work. He and his team carefully looked at these numbers and were important in the projections of these numbers.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Can we see the report of the chief actuary on this work?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
When we do these kinds of calculations, there's no formal report. There are certainly projections, tables, etc.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
But the chief actuary has given assurance to your numbers that this will at most be a $70-million cost to the EI fund. The reason it's important is that we have people who pay EI and have no choice but to do so—employers and employees.
There's a $2 billion fund in this new EI financing board, which is not a lot. The Canadian council of actuaries told us last year that it should be $10 billion to $15 billion. So there's already a draw on this and it seems inevitable that there are going to be rate increases for employers and employees as a result of Bill C-50. It appears there'll be further rate increases required because of Bill C-56, if there's a cost to this program of $70 million.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
It is possible. As we said, our mid-point range is that it would require a one-cent increase in the rate if that happens. It may be a little bit less; it may be a tiny bit more. I think we need to put this in the context of it being a large program. The EI program is a $15-billion to $20-billion program.
November 19th, 2009 / 4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
I only have a few minutes. I just want to read you something from the budget statement this year: “The Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development will be asked to establish an Expert Panel that will consult Canadians on how to best provide self-employed Canadians with access to EI maternity and parental benefits”.
Was that panel ever set up?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Probably not in the configuration that it was exactly put there; I think what happened was that a working group was established that you were on—
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
No, I wouldn't go that--
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Is that correct? I'm the minister's expert? I'm flattered.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I wouldn't go that far, but there was a process that was launched with a goal to try to establish the parameters that would be recommended for designing a program. When that process didn't work out, the minister turned to the department to design the program.
Liberal
Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
But that group promised in January was never formed.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Not that specific group. No.
Liberal
