Anyhow, thanks again, Ministers, for appearing today and for your forthright answers. I'm always amazed at the seven- and five-minute questions that come from our committee. It has been quite a learning experience.

Minister Finley, your riding is very similar to mine, both in the size and in the “ruralness”, if you will, of the riding. The demographics are very similar in that we have retirement communities with an abundance of seniors. Since 2006 the government has undertaken a tremendous number of initiatives that have definitely helped our seniors have more prosperous retirement years and a better standard of living, no doubt about it.

Before I go into my question, though, I would like to also take an opportunity to thank you for coming to the riding of Huron--Bruce in the pre-budget consultation period and hearing what the people of a rural riding have to say. I think they certainly appreciated that opportunity. As well, I'd like to thank you for the hard work from your offices; my staff deals with them in Kitchener, London, and Goderich, and they are just tremendously helpful. I know that the people who come into my office appreciate the ability to have that medium to deal with.

There is a great number of examples of where the opposition parties have voted against our government time and time again, whether it's on pension splitting, guaranteed income supplements, or New Horizons dollars. It's really quite staggering, to be honest with you.

One very successful program, though, that I've seen in my short time in office, is the New Horizons program. Again, the opposition parties voted against it, but I just wondered if you could put it in your terms. You've travelled from coast to coast to coast. Tell this committee how that helps seniors.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Thank you for the praise. I really do appreciate that. I will pass that on to my staff.

We are very sensitive to the needs of seniors. These are the people who built our country, for heaven's sake; they are your parents and your grandparents, and mine. That's why we want to help them. We want to help them stay active within their communities. We recognize that they have a wealth of experience and knowledge, and we're trying to tap into that.

Let's face it. They say that 70 is the new 40 because 70-year-olds have so much energy compared to, say, the 70-year-olds of 40 years ago. We want to tap into that energy. The New Horizons for Seniors program does that. It gives seniors a chance to organize projects that get them involved in helping other seniors and helping young people learn from their wisdom. It gets them volunteering and keeps them active.

It has a number of aspects. One is that project component, which is really good. There is another--the capital assistance part of it. I know that in my own riding the local seniors' home set up a satellite library. Because they're outside of town, people can't get downtown to the library easily, so this is a satellite library with large-print books and audiobooks. It really serves the local needs. These things don't cost a lot of money, but they have a huge benefit for our seniors.

The third component is the program that we're really pushing this year. We started last year with a series of ads about elder abuse, which had tremendous success in raising awareness of the issue. We're going to push it further. This year, my Minister of State for Seniors and her National Seniors Council are going to be focusing on raising awareness of and combatting financial abuse of elders, because too often that either goes ignored or is dismissed as not being abuse. But I really believe that crippling somebody financially is just as serious an issue as crippling them physically. The scars may not be physically visible, but they are very real and they can last a lifetime.

This is all being done through the New Horizons for Seniors program. I was very pleased when the Minister of Finance included an additional $10 million this year on top of the $26 million that was already in the budget, to which the Bloc member referred.

It's really a fabulous program. I'm hoping that we'll be able to protect even more seniors from financial abuse, whether it's by scam artists or, unfortunately, even members of their own families or their friends. This is not acceptable. We want to stop it and I'm looking forward to working with the Minister of State to do just that.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you very much.

We have two minutes until the bells go.

Mr. Savage, I will give you two minutes.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you very much.

I want to go back to the Canadian Council on Learning because I have a bit of a theory. I don't have time to ask a lot of questions, but I want to test this theory on you, Minister.

Don Drummond said it's a “valuable service”. An official at the University of Alberta said that it's a “terrible, short-sighted action” to kill CCL. The secretary-general of the OECD pledged his personal support for CCL. The president of CASA , CAUT professors, the provinces, university presidents, community college presidents, many people in industry, and a lot of people in labour all looked to CCL, and they've said that it's exactly what Canada needs; we need some surveillance on what we're doing.

We spend all kinds of money on post-secondary education and other forms of education, and CCL is a pittance to organize; this is one of the most cost-effective programs that the Government of Canada has come forward with. It's unbelievable that this government would refuse to go forward with it. It is one of the most economical investments the government could possibly make, and seemingly agreed to unanimously.

So I have this theory. I think many of the officials in this room... I know that when you come here you travel with a large party. I think a lot of the people in this room have probably told you that we should keep CCL. I think a lot of them know that CCL does good work. I think it was purely a political decision that was made by you, and perhaps your colleagues, to cancel CCL because it committed two sins: it was a Liberal program and it worked. What do you think of that?

5:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Well, I would wholeheartedly disagree with your theory. That was not the case at all, as I explained earlier. Labour market information is fundamental to Canada. Good labour market information, relevant labour market information, is fundamental to our capacity to go forward as an economy, to identify the skills we're going to need, and to make sure we have programs at our post-secondary institutions and even at the secondary school level to develop those skills. Employers are looking at where they can get students and what programs exist. What we're trying to do--

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I'm in agreement with that, but let me give you a different theory, Minister--

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I'm sorry. I thought you wanted me to answer a question.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I just want to get your opinion on this. One of my favourite movies is Raiders of the Lost Ark. At the beginning of that movie, Harrison Ford goes into the cave, and there's the golden idol. He wants it so much, but he has to find something that weighs the same before he can take it away, because otherwise all the traps will be set off.

Why would you not keep CCL at least until you have something to take its place?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Well, as you rightly pointed out, there was a program and it was limited to funding for five years. That's the way the Liberals set it up.

I would also point out that this was obviously not because it was a program brought in by the Liberals. We've protected many programs that the Liberals brought in and that, since then, the Liberals have actually argued with us, you included, to change. We go on the value and merit of the program, and not on who brought it in, but how well it's serving its purpose.

You and I spent last summer arguing. I was trying to protect the program that the Liberals brought in because I found that it functioned well. You were the one who was trying to eliminate it. Fortunately for Canadians, our perspective prevailed.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Thank you very much to both ministers--

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Madam Chair—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

The bells are ringing, Monsieur Lessard--

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Madam Chair, I have a comment to make.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

I know, I'm sorry, Monsieur Lessard, but the bells are ringing. The meeting is adjourned.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

That's how you operate, Madam Chair. I am very sorry that you operate in that manner. That has just broken a way—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Did you say “point of order”? I heard “point of observation”.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

This is a point of order, Madam Chair. I'm sorry you operate that way. I'm going to let you get settled.

Oh, that's how it is!

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

I'm sorry. We're adjourned.