Human Resources Committee on Oct. 26th, 2010

[Don Head]

Under the current policy that's the way it stands. As I mentioned earlier, that's one of the things we're reviewing as part of our overall inmate remuneration regime.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay, thanks. The second part of my question was on that.

The amounts that they receive, which is $69 every pay period, do they have to reconcile that with anybody inside the institution to make sure that it's being used for the purposes it's deemed for--like you said, maybe buying a can of pop and a bag of chips? Do they have to reconcile that with receipts? How do you verify that they're using that money for the right purposes?

[Don Head]

We have a couple of different avenues for doing that. One is through just the ongoing monitoring of the moneys in and out of the inmate's current account through our finance department. We maintain ledgers in relation to all these accounts. For example, items that are purchased in what are called the inmate canteens in the facilities are done through an automated system where individuals have to use their handprint on a system called the Equinox. It identifies the individual, and the moneys for the purchase of a can of pop or a bag of chips is automatically deducted from their current account.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Just so I'm clear, then, you don't actually physically give them the cash. That's all....

[Don Head]

No, cash inside an institution is a very dangerous thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Madame Beaudin.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for coming.

I have one or two very simple questions. Pursuant to Bill C-31, the government will certainly ask the Correctional Service of Canada to send the information regarding inmates who get Old Age Security benefits, so as to make the connections. Earlier, you said that you had very little information, and thus I suppose that you'll gather that information and send it to the department in order to prepare Bill C-31.

[Don Head]

The information that HRSDC needs in order to make their determinations or decisions is information we do collect. The schedule of information that we would provide would include an identifier number, name, residence, birth place, date of admission, and date of release. That's all information that we collect, so they're not asking us for anything that we don't collect in an automated fashion right now.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Very well. Thank you very much.

It seems to me that according to this bill, it is up to the inmate after his release to inform the department about the fact that he can again receive Old Age Security benefits. Thus, the inmate must inform the department. Instead, why could it not be someone like you who would inform the department?

[Don Head]

That's the way the bill is written. We will be providing, on an ongoing basis, the monthly information about who is being released, in an annual reconciliation report. That information is going to be made available to HRSDC in an automated fashion anyway. But the way the bill is written, the onus is on the offender to make written notification to the minister, ultimately, I believe—the department. You'd have to ask HRSDC why that provision is there.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Very well. Thank you.

This is a simple piece of information that you could easily transmit.

[Don Head]

I believe so.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you.

In the document that you brought today, you set out a manner of managing the inmates' money to some extent. You said that one of the reasons why you are doing this is that you want to encourage inmates to establish a budget while waiting for their release.

When you studied this bill, did you research anything, or write any notes that would allow you to evaluate, among other things, the impact of such a bill on the release of inmates? Have you looked closely at this information? With all the programs that you have implemented, moreover, I think that social rehabilitation is one of your chief concerns. Have you evaluated this bill with regard to its impact and its consequences for inmates?

[Don Head]

Yes.

One of the problems we have overall with offenders receiving OAS or GIS is that for the vast majority of them, unless they are physically receiving a cheque that's being delivered to the institution for us to deposit into their accounts, we don't know whether they receive it. We don't know, unless they disclose it to us, whether that is a source of income—put aside the room and board for a moment—that we can even help them to think about or plan around, in terms of managing their lives or preparing for release. So it's quite conceivable. But in the majority of cases, we believe that if offenders are receiving those payments, the payments are going through direct deposit out into accounts in the community on which they possibly have joint signing authority with a spouse or somebody else. The spouse may send in $100 or $200, but we don't know the origin of that money. All we know is that money is coming in to be deposited into their account. So we don't do any planning around that, because unless it's disclosed to us or unless we physically receive the cheque, we have no idea whether they're actually receiving these benefits.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Have you made any official reports regarding the consequences or the effects of this bill on inmates after their release? Have you studied or made any links between the financial resources of an inmate and his situation after his release when he wants to return to society? Have you made any official studies or reports on this subject?

[Don Head]

No.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

All right. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

I think we have one more round or one more question from Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I was actually going to proceed with Ms. Beaudin's line of questioning. She asked, essentially, what steps could be taken by Correctional Service Canada to ensure that the pensioner's—the prisoner's—incarceration information can be communicated quickly to the minister. I understand that the pension for the first month of the incarceration would actually be paid to the prisoner. In terms of communicating the fact that a person is incarcerated, and all the related details, with today's software programs in today's computer society can you have that information flipped over to the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development almost on the day of the incarceration?

[Don Head]

Technically, it's possible; administratively it just becomes a burden, both for us and for HRSDC. That's why it was reconciled that doing this on a monthly basis would be the easiest for both organizations.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

In terms of turnaround time, from the institution's point of view, what are you talking about in terms of getting accurate information into the hands of HRSDC?

[Don Head]

What we've agreed to is that each month--I assume that it's the end of the month--we will send that data to HRSDC electronically in encrypted-protected mode. They will then be able to do their cross-referencing with their files.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So the one month is essentially a zone you've put in to ensure that things can be carried out effectively administratively, based on the other duties your people have.

[Don Head]

That's right.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

On the other hand, the bill requires the inmate to notify the minister if he or she wishes to receive the pension afterwards. I would suspect that on release you would be able to provide the same type of information, essentially, as you did in the first instance, within 30 days of release.