Human Resources Committee on Nov. 25th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you. That's what we want to do as we move ahead.

Actually, I was just going to mention, Madam Folco, that I think I know what you want to ask, so I'll ask.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Well, I'm the chair. Normally you do it through the chair.

What we were wondering was whether you have more than the five recommendations you provided in your brief.

[Laura Eggertson]

Those are the major ones we would like you to look at. There are some more specific things, if you like, that follow from those.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

What we will do is translate that, and then we can pass it out to the whole committee. Madam Folco wanted to ask, if you had more recommendations, if you would also provide those. I think that was a good suggestion.

[Laura Eggertson]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks very much.

All right. We can have one more round.

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, of course, to our witnesses as well for appearing, and for your testimony and your recommendations today.

There are some, perhaps even at this table, who would suggest that there's not much of a role for the federal government to play at all. The process of adoption and some of the services around adoption are either privately delivered or provincially or territorially delivered. Therefore, as a consequence, I might even suggest that we narrow the scope of the study and the number of meetings that are held on that. I want to address that in just a moment by pursuing a certain line of questioning. I hope to come back and address this.

Currently we have 13 separate jurisdictions for adoption in Canada--10 provinces and three territories. Do we know if the number of children in foster care is trending upward? Has it been reasonably stable over time? Is it going down?

[Laura Eggertson]

We don't know. We don't track the numbers well enough to know.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay, so we don't know.

We have a high number of children in foster care across Canada. That much we do know, at least as a snapshot in time.

On the availability of pre- and post-adoption supports across Canada, how similar are they? Is there a great disparity among provinces? I see heads nodding, but I'd like to get something specific or somebody to weigh in on that.

[Sandra Scarth]

There is tremendous disparity across the country. There are some provinces that provide more. Alberta, for example, provides the best adoption subsidy supports to families. B.C. has reasonably good support. In Ontario, what support they get depends on the children's aid societies. Some places, such as Manitoba, have very poor support. It varies tremendously.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I believe, Ms. Scarth, you described the system, if you can call it a system, or the 13 systems, as disjointed. I believe that was the word you used.

[Sandra Scarth]

Extremely.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

We also have 13 separate health care systems in this country. If they were allowed to operate in the same way, blind from each other, without a sense of cooperation with the federal government, how do you presume health care delivery or outcomes would look in this country?

[Sandra Scarth]

I understand what you're getting at.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

This committee has looked at a national housing strategy, for example. Notwithstanding what the provinces themselves choose to deliver, we do see that there's an important role for the federal government in terms of bringing players to the table to look at the range of issues that are dealt with and whether we can support the provinces and cooperate with them in ways that are important. We do that, for example, through the Canada health and social transfer.

I think we can take a broad look. Would you agree with me, in terms of adoption, that the study this committee undertakes can have some broad scope and yet ultimately find the sweet spot where the federal government can do this better?

[Laura Eggertson]

We think that's not only possible but is really incumbent on the committee to do. This is a national responsibility. These are our kids, regardless of whether they were born in one province or another, and they are ending up on our streets and in our jails, in many cases, when they age out. And they're not getting the care they need.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

In fact, it can be considered with respect to the prevention of crime in Canada.

[Laura Eggertson]

And it can be considered with respect to the prevention of homelessness.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

And it deals with mental health issues.

[Laura Eggertson]

We, in fact, will have someone, we hope, address the issue of mental health care.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I think there's been considerable talk about the federal government participating in some sort of mental health strategy. We do see that there's a valuable role. This can be looked at.

I want to get to the issue of EI benefits. There is jurisprudence around this. It's the Tomasson case, I believe in 2007, that said that maternity has unique aspects to it. Therefore, beyond parental leave, there's consideration for additional time. There are differences, I think, if I hear it correctly, and maybe I'm playing semantics here, but I believe that the Adoption Council of Canada's presentation suggested that it should be 50 weeks for adoptive parents. I believe that it was the Canadian Coalition of Adoptive Families that said that all parents should receive 50 weeks of parental benefits. There's a difference between the two, if you follow me on that.

[Laura Eggertson]

Yes, we actually are trying not to prescribe the terms. What we're trying to say is 50 weeks for both sets of parents. I think we're in conjunction on that.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

So presumably, to go to 50 weeks of parental is to have enough flexibility to deal with both the unique biological aspects and the unique adoption aspects.

[Laura Eggertson]

We're not asking you to add weeks for both groups; we're just asking you to add weeks for adoptive parents.