Human Resources Committee on Nov. 25th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Mr. Komarnicki, I'm sorry; that is your time. You've really gone over.

Did anybody want to add anything, or was that basically the full answer?

[Andrew Griffith]

I think it is the full answer. It's essentially that we're doing this, and the route of permanent resident or citizen doesn't make much difference in terms of processing time; it doesn't matter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The whole point is that of course the province goes through the best interest issue before it comes to its conclusion, and I wondered whether you couldn't consolidate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Yes, go ahead.

[Erica Usher]

It is a sequence, and the province looks at one side of it: they look at the receiving family in Canada in terms of the best interests of the child based upon the receiving family. We don't look at that; we look at the best interests of the child overseas—whether they're being trafficked, whether.... We look at that side of things. So it really is a sequence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I would like to remind members of the terms of reference we set for this study.

At the suggestion of the Conservatives, the terms of reference were framed as follows: “[...] examine current federal support measures that are available to adoptive parents [...]”. I repeat: “[...] federal support measures that are available to adoptive parents [...]”

So, our work this morning, I believe, was primarily to identify areas of jurisdiction and determine what support measures currently exist. I think our guests have provided valuable answers in that regard. The primary support measure with respect to adoption is a 35-week parental leave under the employment insurance system. According to your testimony, on average, 28 weeks are used.

I think that gives us a good overview of support measures. The other area is provincial jurisdiction.

In light of recent debates, where we attempted to flesh out the terms of reference the Conservatives had suggested for this study, we expected them to be asking questions this morning about aspects of the support measures we may not have been aware of.

I also wanted to let the committee know that the questions asked by Conservative members had to do with mechanics and the operation of the immigration system, as it relates to children, as well as its operation in other countries.

We are certainly a long way from talking about federal support measures as they currently exists or any that need to be added, if they need to be added.

That is what I wanted to raise, Madam Chair, because otherwise we are going to end up talking about every aspect of the mechanics of immigration. I could give you the example of the question asked earlier by Mr. Casson, in particular, with respect to the immigration process, and so on.

I don't know whether we can continue to work this way, because we will be stepping away from the initial terms of reference that we set for this study. That is what I wanted to raise. I don't have any other questions, because I believe we have covered the topic, unless the Conservatives can tell us that other measures were not discussed and those are the ones they would like to introduce. If they tell us that, we will go back to the terms of reference. I don't know whether I'm making myself clear. In that case, we'll go back to the initial terms of reference.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Mr. Lessard, you had three minutes to ask a question, and I don't think you indicated at this point that this was any kind of point of order or any kind of committee business. So at this point, that was your three minutes for questions. I think Mr. Martin had a very quick question, and then later on when we're doing committee business, if you want to bring that up...but at this point in our agenda we have these witnesses here, so we're going to complete that task.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Madam Chair, you have the ability to decide that everything is allowed in terms of the questioning. It's as you wish, since you are in charge. I simply wanted to point out that we run the risk of doing this work for nothing. In my case, I intend to keep the focus on the terms of reference that we set for ourselves. So far, I would say that we have covered the subject.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

Mr. Martin, did you have a very quick question?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

It's the whole question around a lot of the work that goes into international adoptions now being handled by organizations and agencies and consultants. In some instances, that doesn't go well. We had one example not that long ago where an organization went bankrupt and left a whole lot of people twisting in the wind around what to do next and how they would get their money back, all that kind of thing. Have you done anything to deal with that or respond to that? How do you oversee or monitor or make sure that all these groups and consultants are legitimate and doing the job that we, as a country, would like them to be doing on behalf of both the children and the adoptive parents?

[Jacques Paquette]

The agencies are licensed by the provinces, so they are regulated by the provinces. If your specific question is how these agencies are being monitored, it's at the provincial level.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks so much.

That's all the time we have. We really appreciate your being here. We probably won't ask you back, although we did have a lot of questions, but I don't know at this point if we'll ask you to come back for this particular study. Anyway, thank you again.

We'll just suspend for a moment and bring in the new witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

If everyone could please take your seats, we will begin with our next set of witnesses.

We have with us representatives from the Adoption Council of Canada, the Canadian Coalition of Adoptive Families, Destiny Adoption Services, and Parents Adoption Learning Support. We want to thank you for being here.

As you can tell, we are pretty limited in our time. I think we have a presentation from each group. We had said seven minutes, but if you could try to keep it below seven minutes, that would be great, and then we'll have a chance to ask you questions.

We will begin with the Adoption Council of Canada. Who would like to begin? Sandra Scarth. Thank you.

[Sandra Scarth, President, Adoption Council of Canada]

Thank you. I'm Sandra Scarth. I'm president of the Adoption Council of Canada. I actually have worked in child welfare for close to 50 years, primarily in adoption in three provinces, and I have a personal as well as a professional interest in being here. I'm also an adoptive parent. Two of our four children came from the child welfare system, a little boy at age five and a half and a little girl at age 10. They're both now in their early forties. Both are doing okay. Our little boy had probably undiagnosed fetal alcohol syndrome, so he has struggled, but he's doing okay.

I'd like to sort of take you a little bit back to why the Adoption Council came in the first place. We started as a group of adoptive parents and workers who felt there were not enough children being adopted in Canada and too many children leaving foster care and ending up on the streets homeless, in the federal justice system, and so forth. We're still concerned, after 20 years, that the same situation exists. We'd like you to think about the things the federal government could do in terms of finding more families for children in this country, not just those who come from other countries.

Child welfare does a good job of taking care of children and bringing them into care but does not make a good parent. Our brief speaks to what happens to these young people when they leave care without supports. We're concerned that we're creating thousands of legal orphans, and we hope this committee will be a catalyst for action at the federal level for these highly vulnerable Canadian children and youth, many of whom are aboriginal. Over 50% in B.C., where I come from, are aboriginal children. And it's much higher in western provinces.

One of our major concerns is, as I mentioned in the previous instance, data. We have good data on intercountry adoption, but we have almost no data on domestic adoption in this country. Our information is pathetic. We collected data at one point in time in this country on domestic adoptions. The most recent is 2004. It was only released in 2007. We can't tell you how many there are right now in the foster care system or who are being placed for adoption. We have estimates.

We can't answer the simplest questions about children in care. We can't tell you how many there are. We can't tell you how many have an adoption plan. We can't tell you how many of them have been referred for adoption, how long they wait before being referred for adoption, how long did they wait for adoption placement, how many siblings do they have who are also free for adoption, how many are aboriginal, how many receive adoption subsidies, how many are exiting care without family support or a connection. We can't tell you any of that. We have no way to track trends. We don't know why the number of children in care is increasing in some provinces, such as Manitoba, and declining in British Columbia.

In contrast, the United States has a very rich data system. They collect every six months. They now have 2009 data, and draft reports are available almost immediately. Their preliminary estimates were available in July 2010 for 2009. Their database has given them three things: accountability for people who look after those kids; it has provided information on trends; and it has tested information beliefs so that we can target things at the real issues. For example, people thought for many years, both there and here, that children stopped being placed for adoption at about age 13, that they lose their ability to be adopted then. We now find it's probably at the age of seven. If they don't get placed by the age of seven, their chances for adoption drop dramatically.

We do have a very rich database about children and their well-being and education in Canada, called the national longitudinal survey on children and youth. It is looked after by StatsCan and HRSDC. That has collected, since 1994, information on children in this country from zero to age 25 on health, welfare, education. But unfortunately, foster children and aboriginal children on reserves are excluded from that rich database, so we don't have any information in that area. This is something I think the federal government should address. There is no reason why they shouldn't be over-sampled and put into that database. So this is something your committee could look into.

The second thing I think I won't repeat because of the shortness of time.

Our recommendation is that we look at some collection of data on domestic adoption statistics. This is a federal government responsibility, for Canadian kids, aboriginal children. We think this is something that your committee could also look into and do something about.

The last thing I want to do is just mention briefly the disparate numbers.

We're about one-tenth the size of the United States. If you look at their numbers, they have 423,773 children in care. We have 78,000. If we're one-tenth, we should only have about 45,000 kids in care.

So why is there this huge difference in the numbers? They place 57,500 children a year. We place about 2,000. We should be placing double the number of children in this country. So we'd like to answer questions about why there is the difference in this situation. A lot of it has to do with lack of public awareness, but there are other reasons.

I'm going to close here and let Laura have some time to talk about the other issues in our brief.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Keep it to one minute, please.

[Laura Eggertson, Board Member, Adoption Council of Canada]

I guess you guys can ask me questions then.

My name is Laura Eggertson. I'm an adoptive parent. I'll just tell you briefly that I adopted two children from the child welfare system, both as older children and both aboriginal. If at some point you want to ask me about that, I'd be happy to talk about it.

We have a few recommendations. One is to amend the Employment Insurance Act so that adoptive parents can have 50 weeks of paid leave, just as biological parents do. There will be other speakers who will address that issue.

The second is to work with the Adoption Council of Canada to fund a national awareness campaign about adoption in this country, including the children who are available and what they have to offer parents.

The third is to amend the regulations of the Citizenship Act so that children who are adopted internationally and become Canadians can pass along their citizenship, even if their children are born abroad.

I just have two more.

We would also urge the federal government to convene a meeting of provincial ministers responsible for children and youth, to draft a memorandum of understanding so that it will be easier to adopt children across provincial borders in this country. Right now, it is harder to adopt interprovincially than it is to adopt internationally.

The fifth is to fund Canada's Waiting Children, the only national photo-listing service that connects waiting kids to waiting parents.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks very much.

We will now go to the Canadian Coalition of Adoptive Families.

Paula Schuck, would you like to present?

Thanks.

[Paula Schuck, Cofounder, Canadian Coalition of Adoptive Families]

Sure.

My name is Paula Schuck. I'm an adoptive parent to two little girls, a parent support group leader in London, Ontario, and I'm also the co-founder of a group called the Canadian Coalition of Adoptive Families. We're a non-profit, national organization that supports families throughout the process and throughout the life span. We hear from families when they are struggling with adoption, when they are struggling financially, physically, and with a variety of issues.

We have two particular issues we want to address today. The first one is the Employment Insurance Act and the inequities there. We would like to see you amend the Employment Insurance Act to give all parents the maximum amount, 50 weeks, to bond with new children. We believe that's an initial barrier that sets adoptive parents, adoptive families, and their children on an unequal playing field, so to speak.

A family that adopts right now under the Employment Insurance Act will receive 35 weeks of paid parental leave as opposed to the 50 weeks for families formed through biology. The 15 weeks designated for the maternity benefit plan are not accessible to parents who become parents by adoption. The grounds for the inequity are often cited as the physical and psychological stress of the biological process of childbirth. But the process of adoption is also stressful for both families and children.

While there are a few employers in Canada that recognize the merits of supporting adoptive families, there are not nearly enough to alter our numbers. We're not arguing against biological parents. We refuse to be pitted against anyone. We want only to give the best start to all Canadian children, not simply those who were born into their family of origin and remain there.

While birth parents get nine months to bond and begin preparing for the addition to their family, adoptive parents do not. They're often given an overnight timeframe to adjust; the children, no different, sometimes arrive overnight. Sometimes they can be 10 years old, they've bounced through five different homes, and they're expected to instantly become family. It is a very difficult task for all involved. Children who come to their families through adoption have often experienced the opposite of a healthy attachment. It may take several years for them to bond properly with their adoptive family.

Adoption has changed dramatically over the last 30 years—2,122 children adopted through international channels by Canadians. I'm not going to get into the other numbers, but suffice it to say that children adopted through the public system come to us with several issues that we need to address—sometimes attachment issues, trauma, physical and sexual abuse, and prenatal alcohol and drug exposure.

In cases of domestic foster care adoption here in Canada, that means at some point the government has decided to become the legal parent to the children. We call them crown wards. Where that is the case, I would argue that we have a higher burden of care to those children. Adoptive parents will spend lifetimes trying to help a child bond, attach, and be safe in a new family. We believe the government needs to step up and amend the Employment Insurance Act to benefit all children.

In Canada, all of our provinces are failing at placing older children and children with special needs in adoptive families. I want to tell you a bit about my experience. I have two children, both adopted as infants. My younger child has been diagnosed with SPD, sensory processing disorder, and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. I want to tell you that it took us months to figure out what her behaviours meant, what was going on with this child. She was very young when she came to us, but she would rage, she would scream, she would bite, and she would resist touch. It's very hard to bond with children who resist touch or hit you every time you are picking them up.

I want to tell you a bit more about FASD because that is something we need to address nationally, not just province by province. As a parent of a child with FASD living in Ontario, I have travelled to Saskatchewan, to B.C., and to Alberta to find out how to parent my child. That's not okay. Our parents are already struggling financially, physically, emotionally. We're barely holding on, but I have to go out of province to Saskatchewan to get strategies to be a parent to my child. That's not okay.

We are calling on you to develop a national FASD strategy. We need supports. FASD is a neurological disability caused by a birth mother's alcohol use while the child was in utero. It is estimated there are 300,000 Canadians affected by FASD. That means those are greater in number than all the people, combined, with Down's syndrome, muscular dystrophy, HIV, and spina bifida. FASD is now the leading cause of preventable developmental disability in the world.

I want to tell you about my youngest daughter. She is six. She is beautiful and smart and athletic, and she has a brain injury that will never go away. That's a fact. I can parent her. I like to say to some of our parents it's like this. They're like fish in a world full of cats. If you parent that fish and expect it to walk, it's never going to work. Imagine you are a fish and you're being raised in a world full of cats. People over the years wonder why you can't walk like a cat. You can't eat the same things. It's not your parents' fault; it's not your teachers' fault. They think you're a cat, so the consequences of you not walking.... They give you sticker charts, behaviour modification programs. They throw their hands up in the air, thinking you must just be a bad cat. That's how we are raising kids with FASD. It's not okay. We need a national policy to address all of this.

We parents of fish have been given our children through agencies. We're not the same as parents mobilized by autism or ADHD, learning disabilities. They've come to us through agencies, when we are foster or adoptive parents. Some are being raised in birth homes; others are being raised in kinship arrangements.

I want to tell you of a couple of personal experiences that friends of ours have had--

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Excuse me, Ms. Schuck, you just have a couple of seconds left. There will be a chance for questions and answers.

[Paula Schuck]

One way that you can address our needs is by amending the federal tax act, possibly, to include something akin to what they have in Saskatchewan. They have a cognitive disabilities strategy so that parents who need help can pull from that for funding to go to whatever conference they need, to get the strategies to parent very difficult children.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you. I just want to say how much we appreciate hearing your story and some of the challenges you're going through.

On this study, we're really trying to focus on adoption. It is important that we hear your story, but I just want to remind everybody to try to stay to the topic of adoption and the supports the federal government could provide. I appreciate your talking about possibly extending EI and the challenges that parents face who are adoptive parents, not just birth parents. But I just want to remind everyone of that.

I also just want to take a moment and acknowledge Jessica, who is I think probably the youngest witness. There are some around the table who have been here longer than I have, but I don't know if we've ever had a very young lady here as a witness. Thank you very much for being here. I'd like to say your last name for the record. It is Jessica van der Veer.

Welcome.

All right. We'll quickly go then to Destiny Adoption Services. If you could stick to around five, six minutes, that would be great. Thank you.

[Rev. Kimberly Sabourin, Destiny Adoption Services]

Thank you for the honour of being here today to advocate on behalf of all Canadian adoptive families and future adoptive families.

My name is Reverend Kimberly Sabourin and I am the proud mother of two stepchildren, two biological children, and one adopted child. I am also the owner of Destiny Adoption Services, a business that provides counselling and support services to people affected by adoption.

I have a dream of seeing every single one of the 30,000 adoptable children in Canada finding their “forever” family. The government is their guardian right now, and foster parents really are the heroes in our world. But each child, no matter their unique medical, emotional, or physical needs, deserves permanency, no matter their age. There are obstacles and myths surrounding adoption, and Destiny Adoption Services works on the front lines in education and awareness.

My background is also in teaching. I was both an elementary school teacher for 10 years and a vice-principal for two years, until we adopted our daughter in 2003. Then I knew my career path had to change. My motto is this: “It is better to prepare children than repair adults.” I believe that education of this generation is critical in fighting against the prejudices facing adoptive children.

My new book, Our Chosen Child, is a resource to educate children on adoption. It is a tool for adoptive families, and it is also reading material for birth mothers who are considering the option before them as they are facing an unplanned pregnancy. Giving honour and respect to birth parents is critical in the process.

In Canada, less than 2% of women facing an unplanned pregnancy will place their children for adoption. They are misinformed as well and need support and education.

I had the privilege on Sunday, November 7, of hosting an adoption Sunday at the church where I'm on staff, the Lifecentre, as the generations pastor. Our congregation of over 1,000 heard the statistics and understood the critical need, and I have received over 300 e-mails from people who had no idea of the crisis facing Canada's precious children. Adoption-friendly terminology is also important in ensuring that an adoptive family feels validated and not like a lesser type of family.

Teachers and administrators must be educated on adoption to assist the families they are working with on a daily basis. Education and awareness is the key.

I am asking the committee to help finance and launch a national public awareness campaign through public service announcements, literature, and broadcasts to promote adoption in Canada.

We've already touched on the EI, so I won't talk about that. The burden, of course, to adopt in Canada is a significant one. I will skip over that and talk about our training.

Those of us who work in the adoption field are faced with the enormous task of providing support to families who are facing a myriad of issues: fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, grief, anger, attachment, the effects of bullying, and the effects of prejudice. We need support in order to support Canada's kids.

Our current adoption system, if you've had the privilege of being a part of it, is disjointed, and that's the word I will use. We need to work toward standardizing adoption and bringing consistency to the requirements and to the process.

We all know there are three types of adoption: public, private, and international. Each one is operating independently of one another and often against one another. I speak from personal experience as well as from a consultant's experience in working with clients over the years.

We must, for the sake of this generation of children, put them first, from the timeline of becoming a crown ward to the placement in their forever family. We must focus on the best interests of Canada's kids and not the best interests of our systems. Each of their futures is directly related to the committee's action or inaction.

I look at my children, and especially my beautiful seven-year-old daughter--for those of you who do have my brief, you will see her sweet little picture. But I dream of the world I want to hand down to her, a world where Canada leads the way in its value of our children.

In summary, I would like to thank you all for the opportunity to discuss these critical needs, and I trust that God will give you the wisdom as we work toward the solutions to the issues being proposed today. I want you to know that I will be a part of the solution. I am committed to serving Canada's children.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much for your presentation. That was great. You were right under the time limit, so thanks for that.

Our last presenter is from Parents Adoption Learning Support. Carol van der Veer is a member.

You have a presentation for us.