Human Resources Committee on March 19th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that.

It's a certainly an interesting range of work from shredding confidential documents, to security, to a bistro, and to disinfecting toys. It took some imaginative, cooperative work to make that happen.

We'll now move to hearing from Rosie, please go ahead.

[Rosie Arcuri, Program Coordinator, Independent Living - Montreal]

I'm here on behalf of Independent Living - Montreal, and we're here as employees with disabilities. I am the program coordinator, and we thought we would share very briefly our stories that we thought would be helpful, what we've learned, and our suggestions.

For me, there were three things that hindered my success. One is access to information. For example, I only learned about a program in Quebec that turned student loans into bursaries four years after I was eligible. For people who had little support or for whom finances were a big problem, that could have prevented them from going to school, because of lack of employment.

The other thing I think is really important to mention is to note how professionals can have a massive impact in the lives of people with disabilities, particularly when you're young and you don't really know what your abilities are, because you don't have the same experiences as a teenager who worked at a summer camp, let's say, or who worked wherever else.

There are amazing people who impact in a positive way, but for example, when I went to register and apply for a college program, I was told, “Oh, with your disability that program would be virtually impossible; try going into business.” I was also told two years later, at 18, that there's pretty much no employment you can do until you have at least a bachelor's degree. When I asked that if I tried to find employment in this area could I get ZoomText, could I get services, he basically told me after seeing me for 15 minutes that he didn't think my personality was conducive to that job and that he could not support my request.

The last thing I have to say is how important experiences are. It leads to networking and it leads to self-confidence and self-esteem, so find different ways to do it. Obviously, employment is crucial, and to get there, maybe be on a board of directors, be a volunteer, and find innovative ways to do that. I've actually been told both at a summer job employment and here at Independent Living - Montreal that it was my extracurricular activities and my other experiences that were not paid that actually made them consider hiring me.

I'll pass it on to Rose-Marie Wakil.

[Rose-Marie Wakil, Information and Networking Agent, Independent Living - Montreal]

Hi. My name is Rose-Marie. I'm going to talk in French.

I work for Vie autonome-Montréal. I have had a disability since birth. I am here to tell you about my schooling and career path.

Towards the end of high school, I unfortunately received bad advice from my guidance counsellor, who based his advice on my disability. Because I had some talent in the area of photography, I wanted to study it at the CEGEP, but he told me that my disability would prevent me from working in that field in the future. I followed his advice and I unfortunately dropped out of CEGEP. It was out of a lack of interest and skills, and also out of a lack of financial support.

After I had dropped out, I remained unemployed for a few years. By happenstance, I met people who were offering specialized employment services that I had never heard of before. I was unaware of all of the services available to persons with disabilities. As a result of that meeting, I was able to define new school and career goals for myself, and this led me to go back to school, in graphic design in a private school.

When I made this choice, I was still dealing with the same financial roadblocks. Unfortunately, I had to fight. In fact, I had to appeal a decision against me to prove that I was indeed a person with a disability. Depending on the level of government, you may be considered insufficiently disabled or too disabled. So I had to fight to get access to scholarships for people with disabilities. Once that was done, I managed to get a degree in graphic arts. The time had come for me to find a job.

Productivity really matters in the area of graphic arts. Employers were uncertain of my level of productivity, even though they did not know me. Nevertheless, I was able to find myself work. I then found a job through a government program apprenticeship, under the training and employability development program for persons with a disability. I did an 18-month internship. Further to that, my employment period was extended by a few months and then I was given the opportunity to become self-employed.

I liked the idea of being self-employed. I thought it would avoid my having to travel and give me a more flexible schedule, better suited to my needs. I wanted to apply for a scholarship or financial assistance from SPHÈRE-Québec, but one of this agency's criteria was that the applicant should not have worked over the last three years. In other words, I was ineligible. I had been in the labour force for too long.

Regardless, I stayed the coursed. I always managed to find work, but it was unfortunately not always related to my skills. So, I had to make compromises: be a secretary, assistant to this or to that. Today, I am somewhat far from the field of graphic design, but I am continuing on this path nevertheless. I have achieved some good successes, allowing me to never stop moving forward.

I'd now like to turn over the floor to Rosie.

[Rosie Arcuri]

What we have learned is that educational and professional decisions can be dictated by the disability. There is a lack of information that affects professionals, both at school and among those that people with a disability know.

There is also inconsistency and a lack of information concerning what is accessible. It would be good to have a place where people with a disability could say who they are and what their disabilities are, and see what services they can access. There is a lot of help and services, but people are not aware, do not have access or have difficulty getting there. It is very difficult to find your first job or your first experience.

We have found that organizations like the External Employment Service were very helpful, that they could help people find a job. That is important. There is also volunteering. However, even if you tell people that you are willing to work as a volunteer, that you really want to help them, if they think you can't do anything, they won't want you. That is also an important aspect.

As I mentioned, there are a great deal of prejudices. We must therefore work with employers, but also with the public. Everyone knows an employer or other people. It is a matter of networking. If nobody thinks you are capable of doing the work, you obviously won't be kept in the company. Once again, it is really the employers' responsibility. People with a disability must also be allowed to speak for themselves. It is nice to give out a textbook or something like that, but if people with a disability are not involved, if it is not them expressing themselves, it is less real, less close to the true reality.

Finally, the people themselves must have a role to play in professional integration. They must know the laws, the services, etc. They must also have confidence in themselves. Programs like CAMO or other community resources can help along the way. It is very useful. People who have had a number of work experiences are more able to find a new job on their own or with less help.

[Rose-Marie Wakil]

We believe that the federal government has a number of roles to play in support measures for people with a disability.

The first role is to maintain a core funding of our organizations, such as Independent Living-Montreal and, more broadly, Independent Living Canada. We want to inform you—as you probably already know—that core funding will decrease until we no longer receive anything in 2015. At that point, you will have to compete with foundations, hospitals and university institutions, which have internal resources for funding requests and projects. For our part, we will be excluded from that because we don't have enough people internally or enough funding to hire people who really specialize in funding.

Core funding allows us to not only run an employment support program that is an alternative and complementary to what already exists, but also to provide resources and workshops on essential non-work steps to obtaining and maintaining a job, or facilitate peer support and mentoring.

The government's second role would be to fund employment support services within organizations.

Our third recommendation would be to put in place financial measures to facilitate mobilization, taking into account employers, productivity and the work situation. For everything related to employment accommodation, it takes much too long to achieve a minimum possible productivity.

Moreover, employers have obligations regarding means, but they don't have obligations of result. To obtain results, the government could propose incentives to all employers. To encourage them to hire people with a disability, we propose giving them a financial incentive.

As well, lastly, for people with a disability to be able to work, we know they need to have home support and assistant services, appropriate adapted transportation and accessible and adapted housing. If we don't have those services, we can't continue working. We need all of those services. Those services shouldn't be reduced.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much. I let you go over time by quite a lot.

We're going to change the order of things. We'll have one question from each party before we conclude. We'll start with Madame Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, everyone. Thank you for having shared your experiences with us.

I would like to talk a bit about housing. We know that many homeless people have mental health problems. Ms. Rankine, you talked about housing. Housing can certainly help break a certain cycle, help people integrate society socially and economically and help them develop self-confidence.

[Jacqueline Rankine]

I'm hearing this in French.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I'll say it in English. I was talking about housing and how housing can be at the very basis for certain things.

I wanted to talk about housing. You talked about housing and how it can be a determinant for self-esteem. You said as well that a lot of homeless people have mental health problems and that having a house, somewhere to live, can break the cycle and give people self-esteem and reintegrate people economically and also socially.

How could the federal government help with housing as part of this process to reintegrate people into the workforce? For example, if there was a national housing policy across Canada could there be something included in there that would speak to the needs of people who have mental health problems?

[Jacqueline Rankine]

Yes. We need a national housing strategy or policy in order to have the construction of more supportive housing. I only know the statistics in downtown Toronto, where we have set up for the first time ever a centralized unit registry, a wait list for people who need supportive housing, in other words, people with serious and persistent mental illness. The most recent number is that there are 6,500 people on that wait list. This is for downtown Toronto alone.

It's just plain common sense that once you have a foundation of some security and stability, then you can build. Among the success stories we have submitted today, two were of people who had been literally sleeping rough, homeless, and one person lived in deep poverty. They are all gainfully employed, well-functioning members of the community now.

I try not to politicize my views, but it's a cruel joke to talk about any kind of employment strategy unless there is a firm basis in housing.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Housing is one of the social determinants of health, which then leads to being better adapted and then having a job. I think it all goes together.

My second question is for Ms. Hanak.

Do you hear the English interpretation?

[Lucie Hanak]

Yes, I can hear.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

We are talking about people who have a physical or intellectual disability, as you said yourself, there are many kinds of disabilities. How could programs be applied well to all of these groups? Should we reach agreements, for example, with groups who are familiar with local needs and who have local solutions?

You talked about different funding types. I would like to have your opinion on that topic.

[Lucie Hanak]

Absolutely the partnership model with local agencies is key, because they can advocate and provide the support in linking people with developmental disability to employment. I mentioned the National Archives, where you have an agency that facilitates the training and assessment of people with developmental disabilities for the job tasks. It's very key, where you see a wonderful three-part approach.

The federal government pays the people with developmental disability.... We're looking at $2 to $3 an hour for 60 people with developmental disability. The federal government provides the salary income. A number of the people have been there for 20 to 30 years. It's a huge commitment from people with developmental disability. Then you see the provincial government coming in with their funding to pay the staff who monitor the day-to-day activities, making sure that the documents are shredded and destroyed. The OCAPDD pretty much supplies people with developmental disability who have the ability to work.

Definitely that kind of model, in which the federal government can be involved, is very successful in this program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you very much for that exchange.

We'll now move to Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to the witnesses for being here today.

I have a sister who has a disability. The challenges that I feel she faced as an adult were in housing, mobility—she was in a wheelchair—and then the opportunity for employment.

As far as housing is concerned, our government has spent $13.1 billion on housing in Canada and $1.7 billion for 605,000 units. It's a big challenge. There's a great need there, but we definitely have started and have worked with the provinces to fund housing on a greater scale than there was before. Also, in our economic action plan we allocated $2 billion for housing.

That is the first area.

It's hard to talk about employment opportunities without linking the rest of this. Mobility is one issue which, as I said, my sister had. She was fortunate enough to have the Easter Seal bus come to pick her up and take her to work. I'm not too sure what they have in other provinces.

I want to talk a little about accessibility, the ability to get to the job, and then once you're at the job.... There were certain things she needed in the washroom for mobility, and there are other needs in the workplace.

The question I want to talk about now is what funding there is for those types of things, to help the employer and then also help the employee. Not everyone can jump on a bus. Even if it is wheelchair accessible, there are other issues.

I would like to throw this issue out to you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Would anyone care to respond?

Ms. Hanak, or—

[Jacqueline Rankine]

Is this about the kind of capital funding there is for enhancing physical plant to make it accessible?

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

That's right.

[Jacqueline Rankine]

I'm sorry, I don't have the answer to that. In my experience throughout the downtown core, we are talking about the need for programs to convert some of our housing, because one thing happening is that the baby boomers are moving to our housing. They are aging and are beginning to experience mobility issues, and accessibility in our existing housing stock is becoming a problem.

I don't know whether there's a CMHC program. I think that if there were one, we would be using it, and we don't have any.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I know that our government came out with accessibility to public buildings and made a lot of funds available for it. As for the workplace, I'm wondering whether you see a need for some sort of support, whether provincial or federal, to help.

I'm going to ask the other question too, because I have limited time. Who should be communicating this to the employers? Should it be the government? Should it be the non-profits? Should it be agencies such as yours that work with folks?

I think it's important to communicate the opportunity that the employers have—not the employees, but the employers. I had a grocery store with 60 people working there. We hired a couple of disabled employees, and it was really interesting that my employees were better employees because of it.

[Lucie Hanak]

Yes, it's seeing the human society.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Absolutely. I have to say that their appreciation of me as an employer went up, too. There's a multiple benefit here.

Could you speak to that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Ms. Hanak and Ms. Taylor-King may have a comment, or anyone else.

Go ahead.

[Lucie Hanak]

I want to talk about the transportation. I think the bigger issue is what the barriers are.

The Loeb Centre, where Jim works, is all on one level. The Loeb Centre buildings were bought by the Loeb family. These two buildings were then converted for day programs and work programs.

Can there be an incentive for large businesses to buy such buildings and accommodate these kinds of workplaces for people with developmental disability? The issue of barriers for the employer, what they are, and whether they can be minimized so that people are welcomed into those workplaces, is a bigger issue.