Human Resources Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[Rutha Astravas]

I can start with responding to a number of different issues you have raised.

I think it's important to note that the EI program is a very large program, and we have designed benefits for.... Really, when we talk about the special benefits, there are two types of cases. One is for the recovery of the worker, for him or her, so it's for maternity or sickness. Then we have a second set, the more recent special benefits, which are about caregiving, meaning parental benefits, family caregiver benefits, compassionate care benefits.

It's that second category that ceases when the person you are caring for dies. We have heard from stakeholders about the need for bereavement leave, both here at this committee and also in the context of compassionate care benefits. In fact, we heard from—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Sorry; just one moment.

What would be the cost of expanding it to bereavement as its own separate category?

[Rutha Astravas]

I'm sorry that I cannot answer that question, but what I can say is that when you do talk about the challenges of navigating the system, we do provide as much information as we can on our websites, as well as in guides to claimants about what they need to do while on claim, and we do ask them to contact Service Canada as soon as possible if their circumstances change.

Just adding to your comment about how things are designed and what we try to do, we do always take concerns of claimants and Canadians seriously, but at committees like this we can't comment on what kinds of decisions were made on specific cases or how that was done.

What we can say, though, is that when it comes down to the sickness benefit, we don't ask the cause of the illness. The medical certificate simply states when you expect to return to work. I just want to put that on the record.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Yes, and I appreciate where the policy comes from, but really a lot of what I heard is simply justification for the status quo. That does not sit well with the people who have been speaking here.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have less than a minute.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

It's interesting when I read about this particular program, the Canadian benefit for parents of young victims of crime. It was not referenced a lot, that I recall, with any witnesses who came in, but it has been suggested that it could be a model for parents who have lost a child. Could you explain a bit about this particular program?

[Rutha Astravas]

The parents of young victims of crime benefit is a grant. It is not part of the employment insurance program. It's a separate benefit administered by Service Canada.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Is it a one-time payment, but administered by Service Canada?

[Rutha Astravas]

It's a one-time occurrence based on an event that is due to a probable criminal cause. However, it's a weekly benefit.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Where does the funding come from for the $6,500?

Is my time up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Your time's up. I'm sorry.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I'd like to know where that $6,500 payment comes from within government.

[Rutha Astravas]

It is a grant.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Is it from Service Canada?

[Rutha Astravas]

It's a voted grant, and it's paid via Service Canada directly to individuals on a weekly basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Madame Sansoucy is next, please.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the officials from Statistics Canada. Those are important data, which must absolutely be part of our report.

Ms. Astravas, I was really pleased to hear that you followed our committee's hearings very closely. Like us, you have therefore learned about the needs of bereaved parents. The experts confirmed how appropriate it is to consider the time those parents need to grieve.

In your conclusion, you pointed out the challenge in that the whole range of support programs is intended for eligible workers. That is the problem we have to address as a committee. All bereaved parents need the support. However, from what I have heard, the current employment insurance program is not the best program for bereaved parents. It is aimed at the 40% of eligible workers. We also see that it is an average, given that eligible women, who are all inevitably affected by the loss of a child, make up only 35%.

A number of witnesses said that the process at Service Canada was designed more for people who have lost their jobs. Bereaved parents had to submit their applications two or three times because they were deemed ineligible. The applications of other parents were rejected. Some said that lining up at Service Canada with people who have lost their jobs was difficult for them, as all those people are not in the same situation as theirs. Other witnesses, women, told us that they were not eligible for employment insurance after their maternity leave.

You showed us what you are offering, but given those challenges, are you considering creating other programs, outside the EI framework, to ensure that 100% of parents who are grieving and need support are eligible for benefits?

[Rutha Astravas]

Thank you. I think you touched on a number of ideas in your question.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes.

[Rutha Astravas]

First, I would like to talk about eligibility. We talked about it at our last appearance here. There are several ways to look at the coverage of the employment insurance program for workers and to calculate the number of weeks of benefits. Last week, Statistics Canada released the Employment Insurance Coverage Survey, which contains more information on the issue.

In terms of the programs administered by employment insurance or otherwise, there is always the possibility of creating new programs. However, I am not in a position to comment on this since I work at Employment and Social Development Canada in the area of employment insurance.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I understand that, but you are still part of the department. The mission of the employment insurance fund is clear. It is intended for people who have lost their jobs, and it provides training. In my opinion, the more we dip into the fund, the more we make it stray from its primary mission.

Although you work in employment insurance, I would like to know whether you have the impression that your department agrees that healthcare needs are becoming greater and greater. That's not the topic of our study, but the fact remains that one in two Canadians is at risk of developing cancer. Even in the event of illness, it will not always be possible to dip into the employment insurance fund.

Several witnesses talked to us about the number of weeks. At the last session, a psychologist even said that no less than 15 to 20 weeks were needed. She talked about a flexible bereavement leave benefit program, since the shock associated with bereavement does not always show up immediately; it sometimes shows up a few weeks later.

Have you come up with any recommendations on the specific number of weeks required? Basically, bereavement falls under a specific type of sick leave.

[Rutha Astravas]

We have no recommendations. We are here to answer technical questions, including how employment insurance works.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

So I'm going to ask you about that.

Can you tell us how many people have claimed special benefits in the last five years because of the death of a child, which is the situation we are currently studying? Can you tell us how many weeks those parents used, how many families received the maximum of 15 weeks, and how many families would have needed more than 15 weeks?

[Rutha Astravas]

We don't know the reason for the sickness benefits. We also have no data on bereavement or the death of a child. As for maternity benefits, we also have no information on whether or not the child died because the benefits continue to be paid. Maternity benefits are intended for the mother. We do have statistics on the number of benefits paid and the maximum duration, but we do not know the reasons or the specific subcategories mentioned in your questions.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You can, however—