Evidence of meeting #25 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
We're actually out of time, so we're going to move on, but if you can stick with us, I assure you we have some questions.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Before I move on, there have been a couple of references to submissions. You don't have those in front of you; they're in the process of being translated, so once those have been done, we'll obviously get those out to everybody on the committee.
We'll go very quickly over to Ms. Stella Lord, voluntary coordinator for the Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia, by videoconference from Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Welcome.
9:20 a.m.
Voluntary Coordinator, Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia
Thank you very much for this opportunity to present. I was only invited to participate about 48 hours ago, so I'll give it my best try.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
9:20 a.m.
Voluntary Coordinator, Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia
Thank you.
The Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia, or the CSEP-NS, now working under the name End Poverty Nova Scotia, is a community-based organization with the overall goal of ending poverty in Nova Scotia. We advocate for social policies and programs that reduce poverty and promote the adoption of poverty reduction strategies at all levels of government.
We've been active in Nova Scotia since 2008, operating on a shoestring budget with the assistance of a voluntary coordinator—and that's me—with a board management committee and a long email list of community contacts. We are on the way to developing an organized End Poverty Nova Scotia network made up of individuals and groups in different regions of the province and representing various demographic and social program sectors, including people with the lived experience of poverty who support our mission and goals.
Until about 2013, we spent a lot of time and energy advocating with the provincial government to develop a comprehensive poverty reduction strategy that takes the “social determinants of health” approach and incorporates clear goals, targets, timelines, and reporting mechanisms. Unfortunately, that seems to have dropped off the political agenda here.
Since our inception, we have also paid a lot of attention to advocating on issues that affect people living on income assistance, such as low welfare rates, oppressive regulations, the lack of support and services, and the need for safe, accessible, and affordable housing. In the process, we've learned a lot about what would make an effective poverty reduction strategy in Nova Scotia and about the need for fundamental reform in Canada's social assistance programs.
We've learned what we think are three keys to an effective Canada poverty reduction strategy.
One is to commit to a human rights framework and a social determination of health, or what is now being called a “health in all policies” approach to poverty reduction.
The second key is that poverty is never just about income, but it's always about income, so make it comprehensive. At a minimum, incorporate the six policy areas outlined by Canada Without Poverty and Citizens for Public Justice in their Dignity for All campaign document, which are housing and homelessness, health, food security, jobs and employment, early child development and care, and income security.
Third, be responsive to the needs and the issues, and engage with those with experience and knowledge in all regions of Canada, meaning people with a lived experience of poverty, organizations that serve them, and those who advocate on poverty and policy issues.
In my written presentation, I give two examples of the need for holistic and comprehensive approaches to poverty reduction. The first one is an example of a brief I just wrote on housing and homelessness in Nova Scotia. I'm not going to read all that I've written. It shows the links between the issue of housing and homelessness and the high rates of unemployment, especially in rural areas; the lack of housing programs and services in both urban and rural areas; the issue of transportation, where gentrification is taking place in some areas of Halifax with people having to move out to suburban areas where they cannot afford proper transportation; mental health issues; disability issues; alcohol and drug abuse issues, all linked into issues of housing and homelessness; demographics—as Georgia pointed out, we have an increasing high age demographic and more seniors, especially in rural areas, are having to maintain large homes and have nowhere to go when they cannot really maintain them—and the income assistance system, and I think this is absolutely core to reducing poverty in Canada, which several of the presenters have already mentioned.
Two major factors in homelessness and core housing in Halifax, as well as in rural Nova Scotia, are low welfare incomes and welfare based on need and constructed as a system of last resort. Currently, depending on family status, the number of dependents, and whether applicants for IA are considered employable or disabled, welfare incomes in Nova Scotia are anywhere between 50% and 25% below the market basket measure of poverty.
Many individuals and families are on income assistance and therefore have difficulty finding or affording rental accommodation that is also safe, secure, and accessible.
In Halifax, some single adults on income assistance who are not eligible for the “disabled” shelter rate must live in old rooming houses owned by slum landlords, who care little about the state of disrepair or condition of their buildings. Families with dependent children may have to live in neighbourhoods where crime or drug abuse rates are high. Indigenous populations in urban centres are not living in culturally appropriate housing. People living in shelters are not even eligible for shelter loans under the provincial welfare program, because those go to the shelter. They're not able to access the private housing rental market because they lack the financial resources and the deposits, and they are turned away because they have no credit rating and insufficient income. This creates a catch-22 in terms of the ability of the transient homeless population to leave the shelter system.
I could talk about a lot of other issues related to housing, but I want to turn to another example—food security.
Research out of the Mount Saint Vincent University FoodARC project—and I would advise you to look them up; they have some great research—has also demonstrated the relationship between food insecurity, inadequate income security, and housing, whether income security is due to low wages or poor income security programs.
For example, in order to pay utilities and rent, which are non-negotiable expenditures, individuals and families relying on minimum wage or low-wage jobs and income security programs such as income assistance, unemployment insurance, guaranteed annual income, or OAS often cut down on healthy food and/or use food banks on a regular basis.
The research also demonstrates that for low-income families in particular, expenditures for health care not covered within our health care system. That includes dental care, medications, physiotherapy, and so on. As well, as the high cost of child care also eats into their budgets and has an impact on food security.
Access to free post-secondary education and skills development programs that lead to better jobs and employment opportunities, together with a higher minimum wage or a living wage, would help improve the situation of those currently in low-wage jobs or people in transition from income assistance. We think the federal government could provide a basis for a higher minimum wage by increasing the minimum wage.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'll ask you to conclude. I'm sure there's tonnes more—
9:30 a.m.
Voluntary Coordinator, Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia
I'll just move to the conclusion.
9:30 a.m.
Voluntary Coordinator, Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia
As the above examples demonstrate, we need a coordinated and comprehensive approach to poverty reduction. We need enhanced federal income security programs, but the federal government could also help with more effective public transportation as well.
The federal government could also play a stronger role in helping the provinces deliver better social and income security programs. We believe that a coordinated plan between the federal government and the provinces is required. This plan should include enhancing federal investments through transfers to provinces for income assistance and social services, while at the same time establishing standards and conditions for delivery of programs—
9:30 a.m.
Voluntary Coordinator, Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia
—that at a minimum would ensure that the provinces could close the gap between welfare incomes and any standard measure of poverty.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you, Ms. Lord. I do apologize for cutting you off, but we do have a lot of questions. We have such a limited time.
9:30 a.m.
Voluntary Coordinator, Community Society to End Poverty in Nova Scotia
My seven minutes went very fast.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
It does go quickly, and I let you go a little bit longer. Ms. Laidley had given us a minute, so I gave it to you.
Thank you very much to all of the witnesses today. There's a lot for us to chew on.
I have a note before we get into the questions. A lot of the witnesses kind of crossed over our whole study. I'll just give you a friendly reminder that the phase we are in is government-assisted savings and entitlement programs. Obviously, you can ask whatever question you like, but I encourage us to stay in the runway that we're in.
First up, we have MP Poilievre.
October 27th, 2016 / 9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Thank you very much, everyone, for being here.
To Ms. Laidley, you had seven or eight recommendations for the committee with respect to increasing income support programs. Can you just give us the full total costing of all of your recommendations, please?
9:30 a.m.
Research and Policy Analyst, Income Security Advocacy Centre
No, actually, I can't. I'll answer that succinctly.
If you're looking for a full costing, I can certainly attempt to do that in our written submissions.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
9:30 a.m.
Research and Policy Analyst, Income Security Advocacy Centre
I would also maybe refer you to the alternative federal budget process that the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives does.
9:30 a.m.
Research and Policy Analyst, Income Security Advocacy Centre
I think that will be coming out in February.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
We just have to be mindful that every dollar we spend as government has to come from somewhere.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Most of it comes from income taxes. To increase income taxes by tens of billions of dollars would threaten the income security of millions of Canadians. We just want to be mindful that the money does come from real human beings who earned it. There's no free money out there.
I noticed you talked a lot about increasing income programs, but I didn't hear you talk a lot about rewarding people for earning income through work. We know that the majority of disabled people want to work. We have statistical data now showing that. We have a million Canadians who are disabled who do work. We have 300,000 Canadians who are severely disabled who work. We know that the best ticket out of poverty for people, whether they are disabled or not, is a job.
Do you agree that all other things being equal, it is preferable for someone to have earned income versus government-administered income?