Human Resources Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[Nicola MacNaughton]

Sure. If I could, I'll just give you a brief 10-second synopsis of what would happen.

I would arrive at a client's home. The first thing I would see is that there are four steps to go up to enter the home, so risk number one has been identified, and I haven't met the client yet. I knock on the door, and I see the senior lady, and she's shuffling down the hallway with her big fluffy slippers on. I know that she may be comfortable and have warm feet, but she's not walking in safe footwear, so we'll talk to her about having proper footwear on her feet so she's not going to fall.

She offers me a cup of tea. Of course, I accept, because she loves being social in her home. I know that it's important for her to get out of her home, and it's also important for her to invite guests. She goes to make her cup of tea, and she reaches over the stove with her sweater hanging, and I'm worried about her sweater catching fire. I can provide her with a long-handled reacher for $10, and we now have eliminated that risk. That's in the first 10 minutes of an occupational therapist being in her home. There's a scatter rug in front of the bathroom where she goes in, so again, she's at risk of falling. We remove the bath mat, or we make sure that it's properly secured.

There are so many simple solutions to allow seniors to stay safe in their homes.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Professor Adegun, you have talked about social empowerment and social networking to improve the standard of living of seniors. What do you want to say in just one minute?

[Dr. Olufemi Adegun]

Actually, I would like that kind of situation, because we have a five-point strategy, as I said, concerning education, enlightenment, empowerment, and engagement, which is very crucial.

If you are trying to address the problems of a particular group, you have to engage them. You cannot isolate them. You have to engage them within the community. That is why our association is raising community-based seminars in conjunction with the cities of Brampton and Mississauga, to actually enlighten the people in the community.

In the city of Brampton, the home care caregivers play very important roles, as I mentioned in my introduction. The government needs to mobilize these sets of groups and work them into the national strategy the government is working on. The home care caregivers are the backbone. There are a lot of them. We don't even know the statistics.

The government has to integrate because, as I said earlier on, we need the government, we need the private sector, we need the NGOs. We need everybody to be able to act, because this is a very crucial problem in society.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[Dr. Olufemi Adegun]

I would suggest that the home care caregivers within the family...we should try to get through community-based seminars and all that.

[Ramesh Sangha, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Professor.

I will share the rest of my time with Mr. Vaughan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about a minute and a half.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I too would like to get back to Mr. Shiner for a couple of quick questions, and the others could comment.

Many of the areas you referenced.... The building codes are primarily provincial, although there is a national building code, but it's more aspirational than enforceable. The provincial building codes are the ones that actually govern construction against the national building code, but it also relates to some of the other challenges around subsidizing housing and subsidizing the fixing of housing.

When there are clear national standards required, would you support intervention on provincial jurisdiction in order to get the issues you've addressed dealt with?

[Dr. Donald Shiner]

The building code is a complex issue, as you've alluded to, but in reality, the provinces adopt the Canadian national building code. They do modify it in a couple of instances, but they adopt the standards almost carte blanche across the way.

I'm getting back to your example. You forgot to mention the fact that the door you went through after you got up the four stairs—

[Nicola MacNaughton]

Yes, it was only 32.

[Dr. Donald Shiner]

—is only 32 inches wide. According to the building code, section 91.5, a 32-inch width...if it was a wheelchair that lady was in, it wouldn't fit through the front door, which needs to be 39 inches for an electric wheelchair, in case no one's told you how wide.

Anyway, the building code is extremely difficult to change. There are a lot of interest groups involved in it. In England, they tried to make it a national change in Parliament, and they failed.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Would you support federal action, even if it's provincial jurisdiction in order to achieve the goals you've set out?

[Dr. Donald Shiner]

Absolutely. We need to have accessible homes.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Rest assured, the building code and the national seniors strategy are being pursued by the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now, we go over to MP Fortier, please, for six minutes.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm really glad that we are here today to hear your testimony. I am also pleased to see that my colleagues, including the ones opposite, agree that action must be taken and efforts made in this area. It may be necessary to invest in housing. We must really take action today, not sit on our laurels just by studying the issue. We must take action; that's what I'm hearing.

Ms. Sullivan, I'm very pleased that our committee is having you appear today. As a member of Parliament for the Ottawa region, I would like to thank you and congratulate you for the remarkable work you do for the community. I would also like to point out that you work with people who have specific needs, whether they are francophones, anglophones, first nations, Métis, Inuit or immigrants. You have the opportunity to respond to these needs.

As we know, you receive funding from the provincial level because a significant portion of your services are offered province-wide. However, if the federal government could do something, what two priorities would you suggest we choose here, in committee?

[Lisa Sullivan]

I'm not sure if this quite answers your question, but the first priority is to make hospice palliative care services accessible to the entire population. Right now, it is not accessible. We don't have enough resources. We certainly don't have enough beds, and we don't have enough resources to help people at home. Inside that priority is meeting the needs of some subpopulations. It may be different in every community, but in Ottawa we are trying to look specifically at our French-speaking community, as well as trying to increase diversity with some of our multicultural groups.

The second priority is what I was speaking about earlier. It is well understood, and people are quite sympathetic when we talk about end of life and people dying. They see that as a very important role we play, and I'm very proud to be part of it. However, there is that much longer period of time when people are dealing with an illness that doesn't have a cure. They're not going to get better, but the supports are few.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Beaney, I'm pleased to meet you.

First of all, I want you to know that I had the privilege of working at the Montfort long-term care centre, which is one of the residences your company works with to provide services.

Do you have centres that offer mixed services? I know that, for example, at the Montfort long-term care centre, only people who needed long-term care were welcome. As you mentioned in your testimony, some couples can't live together, because one spouse needs a particular long-term care service, but the other doesn't. Does your company have mixed centres, by any chance?

[John Beaney]

That's an excellent question. Revera has a number of homes that provide both retirement and long-term care on the same premises, even in the same building. It is a complex solution, in that retirement and long-term care are governed by completely separate legislation. Even though we provide that care and support in the same environment, each environment has to answer to and is inspected by entirely different legislation and an entirely different inspection team.

Managing that adds tremendous complexity, and thus cost, but we have it. It provides an excellent answer and solution to married couples—to your example—who can at least remain in the same building and spend time together every day despite their different care and support needs.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Finally, I would like you to explain how vulnerable people living below the poverty line can access affordable housing in your residences. Is there a way to accommodate them?

[John Beaney]

It is different, depending on retirement and long-term care. In our retirement homes, that's a private-pay model, as I indicated earlier. Generally, we wouldn't see folks who have financial restrictions in a retirement home. It is a solution for a certain element of our senior population.

In long-term care, that is different. It is a government-funded business, and seniors who have difficulties with funding or a limited income have the ability to apply for additional support from the government to ensure that long-term care is available to everybody. We have many people in that position across our portfolio.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Now, over to MP Wong, please.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond Centre, BC]

First, I would like to thank every witness who came to our committee and presented to us valuable information about the good work they've been doing and continue to do, and about some of the challenges they're facing. Thank you to each and every one of you.

I have several questions, so just give very brief answers, please.

The first is about funding. If we look at financial updates and ways and means, the money originally promised by the former Liberal minister of health for hospice funding is no longer there, or has been incorporated somewhere where we couldn't find it. Do you think there should be a specific item only for hospice funding?

Ms. Sullivan.

[Lisa Sullivan]

I think it should be within the community care spectrum. For instance, currently in Ontario, there is the former CCAC, which is now called home and community care, linked with our LHIN. I see end-of-life care as part of that continuum. There should be a special pot of money but not a separate service, if I'm describing it correctly. I don't think we should have a separate entity providing just hospice palliative care; instead, it should be part of that continuum of care that we provide people who are in the community. Organizations like mine are part of that system but not a separate group altogether from what we already—

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond Centre, BC]

Yes, but you should have access to that funding.