Evidence of meeting #98 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Great. That's fine. I will support the subamendment.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
All those in favour of the subamendment please signify.
(Subamendment negatived)
All those in favour of amendment CPC-5 please signify.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Is it too late to ask for a recorded vote, Mr. Chair?
I'd like a recorded vote.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
All right, but try to get it sooner next time.
(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We are on amendment NDP-10.
MP Trudel, do you wish to discuss it?
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
Yes.
Our proposed amendment is intended to ensure that the investigation can begin as soon as the complaint is made, in order to avoid re-victimization. If the objective of Bill C-65 really is to improve workplace conditions and the working climate, it must at least be amended so that the investigation begins a maximum of 14 days after the complaint is received, in order to assist the victims.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
I want to tell you that we are going to support this amendment because, once again, we consider that it helps to protect victims of harassment by imposing reasonable deadlines. I intend to support this amendment.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Is there any further discussion?
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We are on amendment NDP-11.
Is there any discussion?
Madame Trudel.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
This amendment proposes a general, non-restrictive framework that reflects Canada's national diversity in choosing investigators. The goal is to allow for an investigation that is fairer and more open-minded, but above all, one that is free of bias and able to earn the victims' trust. It is important for that to be in Bill C-65.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you.
Is there any further discussion?
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We move on to amendment NDP-12.
Is there any discussion?
Madame Trudel.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
According to the current wording of the bill, the designated person conducts an investigation, drafts a report on the incident, and makes recommendations for the workplace. That is where the problems arise. This is why the NDP has proposed this amendment.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
In the original iteration of the bill, it is as if the government did not consider the people involved in the workplace, workplace committees, for example. They have an important role in prevention. We know that prevention is one of the pillars that the Minister favours in terms of harassment. We consider that it is very important to inform people in the workplace about all the decisions made, in order for the process to be open and transparent. So we intend to support the amendment that the New Democrats have proposed.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you.
Give me one moment to confer with the clerk. I'm sorry, I need to check on a technicality.
Monsieur Blaney.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
I would like to add that the New Democrats' proposal allows information and the results of the investigation to be made public and published. This is extremely important. In addition, the proposal in the second paragraph is intended to protect privacy. So this is a really balanced amendment: the privacy of the complainants is protected and, at the same time, the people in the workplace are informed about what happened, as well as about the results of the investigation. My colleague has submitted a very good proposal.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Briefly, again it goes to the privacy issue. I know Mr. Blaney mentioned that it was dealt with, but while the employee can have certain information deleted, there still would be a record that they had put in a complaint.
Could the officials clarify if regulations will include something about what is provided to workplace committees and that type of process and their role in this?
3:50 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Yes. The intention is, through regulations, to be quite explicit in terms of the role of the workplace committee. Part of that is to make sure that there isn't a misunderstanding in the reading of this legislation that the intention would be to cut workplace committees or health and safety representatives completely out of this issue. Indeed, they have a huge role to play.
It will set out things such as their involvement with regard to the crafting of a policy on harassment and violence. It will very clearly set out what information they will be able to get—for example, the report of the competent person. They might not be able to get all of it because of the privacy of information, but certainly they can and should have access to the recommendations that relate in particular to the need for cultural change.
What the regulations are going to do is really very clearly spell out exactly where the workplace committees need to be involved.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
What are the risks if workplace committees themselves are included in the legislation, especially if you're looking at a smaller workplace?
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
One of the things we heard in the consultations that we undertook was a lot of concern about the protection of personal information. A number of experts came forward indicating that they were concerned that people are not now coming forward and won't in the future with complaints about harassment and violence if they feel that they are going to be the subject of gossip. With a range of people in the committee, when something is being dealt with through a committee, that's a whole lot of people knowing your personal information. They suggested to us that we needed to find a way to be able to ensure that this information is protected.
The exclusion of the workplace committees is really just for the investigation of the incident itself. There's nothing preventing an individual who has experienced harassment and violence from seeking support from a member of their committee, from seeking support from their union, any of those. That's up to the person who has experienced the incident, but really the goal in this is to involve as few people as possible in the very specific investigation of that particular incident.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
That's not to say that the workplace committee would share the information or would gossip, but there's a perception on the part of the employee that it could happen, so it makes them uncomfortable. Workplace committees play a really vital role within organizations, but there's a perception that other people would know about it. It's not necessarily that the committee has ever done anything they shouldn't have done. It's more a perception of what could happen in sharing the information with more people.
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
That's absolutely correct. I'm sure the committee members would not share it, but it's that perception, and it's for that individual. They would not necessarily feel comfortable coming forward to a committee with their issue.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have listened to the conversation carefully and some things need to be borne in mind. When a case of harassment occurs in a workplace, it is because the workplace is unhealthy, even though only one person is the target. In the investigation process, investigators are going to question a number of people involved in the situation. So information about the harassment situation is already going around the organization, even before the results of the investigation are revealed.
What is interesting about the New Democrats' proposal is that it includes a degree of protection for the complainants' privacy, in terms of the information disclosed, whatever the result of the investigation, whether or not it finds that harassment has taken place. The proposal is structured in such a way as to protect privacy, whereas the current bill has no provisions to protect complainants from disclosures.
Some features can be added into the regulations, but, as a lawmaker, I feel that it is our responsibility to protect the privacy of complainants. That is what Ms. Trudel's amendment allows.