Human Resources Committee on Oct. 9th, 2020

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Clerk, for sending that document.

I'll just reiterate my point that I believe, given the new suite of benefits from Employment and Social Development Canada and given the new announcements on housing, this committee should take the refresh that the Liberals wanted to give it and start afresh. There is much to be done, from a labour and economic standpoint, that requires us to re-examine our priorities. We should not be hindered by the previous work of the committee, whether we are in agreement with or in opposition to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to finish my contribution to this debate by emphasizing that I strongly agree with Ms. Chabot: if we have already adopted a study, we can adopt it again, but that does not mean the committee should prioritize it or even undertake it. Usually, parliamentary committees have a long list of study proposals, and some of them never get done.

That does not mean we cannot adopt and do other studies before those on the list, or even without having done them. Mind you, certain studies are important. For example, I found the Canada Summer Jobs study quite important. If we take up those studies again, we will avoid another debate on motions that have been carried and on which the committee was generally unanimous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Ms. Gazan has the floor.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

While I appreciate the concerns that are being raised about bringing forward the same motions, I just want to remind the committee of some earlier comments made about time wasted proroguing Parliament. Canadians are expecting us to get back to work. I certainly have heard many people in other parties talking about getting back to work. I think we need to get back to work. I don't think that limits the kinds of questions within the studies we've agreed upon. They can adjust and shift as our circumstances have adjusted and shifted. For example, we talked about the impacts on student jobs. I'm sure the questions that will be asked in committee will reflect the changing circumstances and the programs that have been put forth. We can certainly offer that up when we're requesting specific witnesses.

I do think it's time for us to get back to work. I think Canadians are tired of all the games. People are rolling on the streets, and I think they want to see us finding tangible research solutions to some of the very complex issues we're facing.

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Is there any further debate?

Seeing none, we are ready for the question.

I think it's clear that a recorded division is required on this, based on the debate we just had.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

Ms. Young.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The second motion, as we have talked about, would prioritize the studies. I think you will hear that this would be even more relevant today, since COVID:

That, in recognition of the fact that nearly 80% of the indigenous peoples in Canada live in urban, rural and northern communities, be it resolved that pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study to investigate and make recommendations on the challenges and systemic barriers facing indigenous people and indigenous housing providers in northern, urban and rural communities across Canada; that this study focus on urban, northern and rural providers and identify the gaps in the federal government's current policies in addressing homelessness and the precarious housing crisis facing indigenous people in urban, rural and northern communities across Canada; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

All right. I had understood that that was to be.... I'm not sure that I heard priority in there, and my only question would be whether this is identical to a motion that has already been adopted, in which case I'm not sure whether it's in order.

I seek your guidance on that, Mr. Clerk.

Ms. Young, I didn't hear anything different from the motion that was just adopted by virtue of the continuation motion. Am I mistaken?

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

I certainly was meaning to have this as a priority for the committee moving forward. This is an area that I think is no doubt even more of a concern across Canada since COVID started. It was a priority for our committee prior to this meeting, and I think it still remains a priority for Canadians and for indigenous people. I think it's probably one of the most important studies that we could take on at this time. It's certainly specific to an area of great concern for many Canadians, if not all Canadians. I think that we need to make sure that we look at this very important issue right off the top of this committee. I think anything less than that would be harmful.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I don't debate any of that. My query is strictly on a procedural basis. If you've introduced a motion that has already been adopted by the committee, I'm not sure that the motion is in order. If you were to indicate that as a first order of business that the committee should undertake, then that's a different motion, but that isn't what I heard. If you want to reframe it or to include those words, we can go ahead with this, but otherwise, I don't think we can.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Okay. Yes, I understand, Mr. Chair.

What I would like to say is that, as a first order of business, I recommend that this committee undertake the following motion, and then it would read as I have read before. Would that be substantial?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I think that does it.

Mr. Clerk, are we off base here?

[The Clerk]

Ms. Young isn't able to amend her own motion, unfortunately. Someone else could move the amendment, but we would need to have language in there about prioritization of that because, having adopted the previous motion, this study is now back on the books.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

My only comment on that is that I'm not sure the motion could be moved until it was ruled in order. Am I wrong there?

[The Clerk]

You're correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay. I can rule the motion in order now that she's rephrased it, and we can proceed.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

For clarification, can Ms. Young please reread the new motion to the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I think that's fair.

Ms. Young, after that discussion, the motion that you want to present is different from the one that has already been presented. Please go ahead.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

This is the second part of the motion that we would prioritize a study that all parties agreed to before. The motion is:

That, in recognition of the fact that nearly 80% of the Indigenous People’s in Canada live in Urban, rural and northern communities; be it resolved that pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study to investigate and make recommendations on the challenges and systemic barriers facing Indigenous People and indigenous housing providers in northern, urban and rural communities across Canada; that this study focus on urban, northern and rural providers and identify the gaps in the federal governments current policies in addressing homelessness and the precarious housing crisis facing Indigenous People in urban, rural and northern communities across Canada and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay, colleagues, you've heard the motion. The motion is now in order.

I recognize Ms. Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

This is just to say that I think this is a critical study. I think, if anything, we've seen during COVID certainly with cases now emerging in indigenous communities, certainly in my riding..... I have over a hundred cases with a very high indigenous population and a housing crisis. I think this is very pertinent, not only to COVID, but also to an issue that has been present prior to COVID. I fully support this motion.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

While I believe I supported this motion last time—I am not at all opposed to the motion—at this moment I have reservations about the need for us, during this reset, to have the ministers come before our committee at the earliest possible time. We have a short window to examine our estimates, and I believe we have a fiduciary responsibility to Canadians to show how we're spending taxpayer dollars at this critical time. I'm not in opposition to this motion, but I think we need to be flexible with some immediate issues that need to come before this committee in a timely way. My support about whether to move forward on this motion will likely be contingent on some flexibility from the other side to ensure we account for estimates and the appearance of ministers at this critical juncture.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Madame Chabot, please go ahead.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I would like to point out that earlier we discussed the motion to reintroduce all of the proposed studies that had already been adopted. We debated it and I was quite clear. We were reassured that reintroducing all the motions did not mean they would be prioritized. The motion is in order, but I want to say, respectfully, that I will be opposing it. Indeed, I have the impression that we are trying to do indirectly what we did not want to do directly earlier. Earlier, we passed a motion to give ourselves some leeway for prioritization.

I am not in any way denying the vote I cast at the time. I am talking here about the importance of indigenous issues, including social housing. I also recall how important it was to our work when we agreed on that priority. So today I am going to oppose voting now to make one of these motions the priority. I feel we need to be flexible and look at the other proposed studies, taking into account the Speech from the Throne, the various proposals and the new mandate letters. We can determine our study schedule later on.

So I am going to oppose this, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Mrs. Falk, please.