Human Resources Committee on Dec. 8th, 2020

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

How would that help big cities such as Toronto and ridings like mine, Don Valley North?

[Romy Bowers]

The principal way is by creating supply. When you look at the 10 years prior to the launch of the rental construction financing initiative, you see very few new units and purpose-built rental being created.

Since the launch of the program, we have seen, especially in the large cities, very significant take-up by developers but also by non-profit associations. We feel that by creating additional supply in supply-constrained markets, we create additional housing choice for middle-class Canadians and additional supply puts the pressure on house prices as well.

All in all, we think it is very positive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

Thank you, Mr. Dong. That's it; that's all.

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes, please.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

I'm going to ask short questions.

I would like to come back to Service Canada. I also asked this question in the last round.

First, I thank you for being here for two hours.

I'd like to clarify that when asking my questions, I'm asking about Service Canada's scheduled outreach sites.

Are you able to confirm for me that these sites have not reopened? As they have not reopened, do you intend to reopen them and, if so, when?

[Lori MacDonald]

Thank you for your question.

The outreach sources are not open at this time. What we've done is create an alternative service delivery. There are two components. One is our e-service, whereby clients can email us—we have a specific address—and fill out a form, and we call them back within 48 hours. The second service is our outreach support centre, whereby we have connected, particularly in our rural and northern areas, with a number of third party sources to assist us to reach clients.

Both of those services are provided in areas where we previously had staff who would do the mobile services. We intend to reopen them as soon possible, as soon as our staff are able to travel, and [Technical difficulty—Editor] services will continue, as well as the alternative service delivery model that we put in place.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I believe they may possibly reopen.

Thank you for your clear answer, they have not reopened. You replied that you intend to reopen them, but it will be when the staff can travel.

I believe that staff can already travel. I will add that you can decide to maintain electronic services, but they do not meet needs at all. You know the problem very well, we regularly bring it up in the House. There are Internet network problems and, even when they do not face those problems, Quebecers and Canadians have trouble using the form services, which do not work at all for a category of Quebecers and Canadians. In our opinion, Service Canada should be accessible across the country to reach as many people as possible.

I already asked my second question at our last meeting as well.

There was a deadline for applying to receive a one-time non-taxable emergency payment of $200. This payment had been provided during the COVID-19 period to seniors who are entitled to the guaranteed income supplement.

Some people submitted their application before the September 11 deadline, some even several months before the deadline. We have actual cases of people in this situation. However, because their application was not processed on September 11, and I stress the word “processed”, they still have not received their payment and they are being told that the deadline has passed. It's the processing of applications that's at issue, not when people submitted their application.

Do you have a solution in sight?

[Cliff C. Groen, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Benefits and Integrated Services Branch, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you very much for your question.

We totally agree that processing applications is very important.

When the one-time payment to seniors was announced in May, we introduced measures to ensure that we were able to pay the maximum possible for all seniors. In July, we issued an initial payment to all those who were already receiving old age security or the guaranteed income supplement. After that, another period followed to ensure that all applications were processed. Eligibility for the payment depended on eligibility for old age security or the guaranteed income supplement in June 2020.

We set a deadline to receive all applications, September 11, since the payment was available until the end of September. After that, we no longer had the authority to make the payments. That is why we set up a team dedicated to this, to make sure that as many applications as possible got processed. As a result, we reduced the time it took to process applications.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

How many applications didn't get processed?

[Cliff C. Groen]

I know that about 6.5 million people have received the payment. During the months of July, August and September, we processed more than—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

How many applications remained on the shelf?

[Cliff C. Groen]

A very minimal number of applications were not processed, certainly under 1,000. I don't have the exact number. Often we didn't have all the documentation we needed to be able to establish applicants' eligibility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Groen.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Next is Ms. Gazan, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for the deputy minister.

In Winnipeg, we had an extremely troubling international news story come out of our city yesterday. It was that trench fever, a rare disease that afflicted World War I soldiers, of which only four cases have been known to occur in Canada since the 1990s, has appeared four times in the past two months in Winnipeg. This is an illness that is known to have infected people in crowded refugee camps during war time.

Dr. Carl Boodman, a Winnipeg doctor, has treated four patients in the last two months, all of whom had lived in shelters. We know this disease is serious, and we also know this disease is potentially fatal in many cases. The Canadian Medical Association Journal has said that this disease is a result of poverty. When I look at the rapid housing initiative, while any sort of monies are welcome, they are completely and utterly insufficient.

Currently, I have members of my community in hospital during a global pandemic with poverty-caused illnesses that haven't been seen in this country in nearly 100 years. The Prime Minister indicated he is not interested in a guaranteed income.

Is your department still exploring that option to ensure that people can live with dignity and human rights in this country?

[Lori MacDonald]

As a policy department with respect to housing, poverty and social programs, we look at all options with respect to what that might mean for income supplement. Basic income, employment insurance and all of those things do get conversation in our department. At this time, we're looking at what would be the best possible options going forward.

I'll ask my colleague, Janet Goulding, to share any comments she may have.

[Janet Goulding, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thanks, Lori, but I have nothing further to add.

Thank you.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

My next question is for Madam Goulding.

I had an opportunity last week to speak with a constituent in my riding, Al Wiebe, who has lived experience with homelessness, regarding the membership of the newly appointed national housing council. He was greatly disappointed with the fact that the council did not include one single person with lived experience of homelessness.

As you know, the work of the national housing council is critical in implementing the national housing strategy. It's also essential that those who have first-hand experience with the impacts of homelessness guide the work. In fact, this was noted in the National Housing Strategy Act, which encourages including people with lived experience.

I'm wondering if your department is open to reconsidering selection, to ensure that people who have experienced homelessness are also included on the council.

[Janet Goulding]

Thank you for the question, but I will have to defer to my colleagues at CMHC. The national housing council is a CMHC initiative. Perhaps Ms. Bowers could respond.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay. Thank you.

[Romy Bowers]

Thank you very much for the question.

In determining the members for the national housing council, there was a robust selection process that took into consideration a number of factors, including lived experience, as Ms. Gazan mentioned, professional expertise of the various nominees and their experience in the housing domain.

All these factors were taken into consideration in choosing members who we believe are very well qualified to provide us with guidance and instruction in terms of developing the national housing strategy further.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I don't argue that everybody on the council is of really high standard, but I do ask why nobody on the council has actual lived experience with homelessness, such as Al Wiebe, who is a very well-known homelessness advocate.

I'll move on to my next question. Many of the witnesses from our urban, rural and northern indigenous housing study have cited the need for a separate urban indigenous housing strategy, which has also been advocated by many housing experts who serve urban indigenous people across the country, including the Ontario Federation of Indigenous Friendship Centres.

Will your department be open to creating and adequately resourcing an urban indigenous housing strategy?

[Romy Bowers]

I'm not sure who that question is addressed to, but I'm very happy to take it.

That is a decision for the government to make, but from the perspective of CMHC, we are here to support the government's direction in terms of co-developing an urban, rural and national indigenous housing strategy in conjunction with indigenous people to serve indigenous peoples.

We are ready to provide our expertise in this area and are ready and willing to provide the capabilities that we as an organization have to move this policy work forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Next, we will go to Mr. Vis for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Perlman, what's the operating budget of Employment and Social Development Canada?

[Mark Perlman, Chief Financial Officer and Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Right now, taking into account the supplementary estimates (B), our operating budget is about $885 million from the consolidated revenue fund.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

How many staff are employed at Employment and Social Development Canada?