Human Resources Committee on Nov. 17th, 2020

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses and thank them for their contributions.

Before I get to my questions, I have a short comment. In the next few weeks, the parliamentarians on the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities will hear from witnesses sharing their stories. Our job is to study the barriers and challenges related to indigenous housing in rural, urban and northern communities. It is no easy feat for parliamentarians to sort everything out, to understand how the programs are coordinated and to be familiar with each one, so I wish to thank the analysts for the information they have provided to help educate us. What can the government do to better coordinate efforts and make sure the various housing and homelessness programs you talked about meet the needs of indigenous people? How can the government keep track of improvements, setbacks and challenges over time? That answer would be invaluable to us, but you don't have to answer. After all, it does warrant extensive consideration.

My question is for Ms. Bowers. Under the national housing strategy, $400 million was allocated over 10 years to build and repair housing units in Inuit Nunangat, including in Nunavik. According to Statistics Canada, 23% of housing units are in need of repair and new units need to be built.

Can you give us an update on the initiative in Nunavik? Do you have any estimates you can share?

Since it does span 10 years, how do you make sure the project addresses the need and improves the housing situation?

[Romy Bowers]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank Madame Chabot for that question, and I'd like to defer this question to my colleagues at CIRNA, which is the department in charge of this particular funding. I think they're in the best position to provide a response.

Thank you.

[Chantal Marin-Comeau]

Good evening, Ms. Chabot. Thank you for your question.

I should start by pointing out that the 10-year investment is now in its third year. Since the beginning, we have been working with our indigenous partners to develop plans, priorities and funding for the regions, especially in Nunavik.

In addition, we have a trilateral table where the province, Nunavik and the federal government come together to do annual planning, make projections, engage in meaningful discussions and identify actions. I should make clear that everything done in Inuit regions is Inuit-led, in co-operation with local and municipal authorities.

We have already seen progress, but as I mentioned in my opening statement, there is much more to be done. Our Inuit partners are encouraged by the direct funding to the region. Clearly, this is a partnership built on self-determination. A lot of positive feedback has come in. Inuit identify the deficiencies, and determine the plans and investments. There is still a lot of work to do, but I hope that answers your question.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, it does.

Can we get a report specifically on that initiative?

[Chantal Marin-Comeau]

At the end of every year, we prepare a report with our Inuit partners. I would be happy to share that with you.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

Under the rapid housing initiative, the government will invest $1 billion by March. Has the government designated funding specifically for indigenous organizations or communities, or is the support broader in scope?

The question is for Ms. Bowers.

[Romy Bowers]

The $1-billion rapid housing initiative consists of two streams. Half of the funds are being dedicated to select municipalities, and the other half, $500 million, has a project stream. All non-profits and other organizations throughout Canada are invited to apply. We do have a prioritization process, which makes it very important that we serve the most vulnerable in a community and where the needs are the greatest. Clearly, projects that are in the north would fit those prioritization criteria.

We have a team at CMHC that works with proponents in the north to make sure that we provide support in the application process and to make sure that the prioritization process occurs as it should.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Marin-Comeau, I received an email from Mr. Kent advising of a small problem. When you speak French, click the button for French, please. The interpreters could not hear you very well.

[Chantal Marin-Comeau]

All right. Thank you.

My apologies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

It's okay. These things happen in our new world.

Next we have Ms. Gazan, please, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like brief responses, just because of my short period of time, from Madame Marin-Comeau and also Madame Goulding.

I want to thank everybody for being here. I know it's a very difficult time, and I appreciate your time here today.

With the government recently announcing funding for rapid housing, and with Reaching Home being primarily targeted, as you indicated, towards indigenous housing projects and women.... We know—particular to my riding—that 70% of the unsheltered community in Winnipeg is indigenous. Although I appreciated working with my colleague Adam Vaughan to get resources into our community, the $12.5-million allocation is grossly inadequate in terms of meeting our current needs, and it's resulting now in people losing their lives from COVID outbreaks within our shelter system.

We're running out of space in our isolation units for the unsheltered community in places that have been opened up during COVID. This wouldn't have happened in the first place if there hadn't been a history of underfunding and underinvestment, particularly in the area of indigenous affordable and accessible social housing. This is particularly pronounced on reserve as a result of former finance minister and former prime minister Paul Martin's 2% funding cap, which has been devastating in terms of the housing situation on reserve.

With the rise of COVID cases across the country—certainly in first nations and Inuit communities, both urban and rural on reserve—we know the investments are inadequate. Very simply, are there any plans to increase investments to actually meet the real needs and urgency of housing on reserve and also in urban centres? If you could quickly respond to that, then I'll move to my next question. Thank you.

Either one can start. Maybe we'll start with you, Madame Marin-Comeau.

[Chantal Marin-Comeau]

Thank you very much.

I don't think I need to toggle anything. I hope everyone will understand my answer.

I'll respond to the specific area that I'm responsible for, which is Inuit and Métis housing.

The question you ask is a complex one, but maybe I'll just start with some of our plans for future years.

Under the current strategies, approximately 550 units are planned for Inuit regions, and there are going to be a whole bunch of units that will obviously see the light of day. There are going to be some reparations, as I mentioned, and there will also be some new constructions and things like that.

On the Métis housing strategy, we've established that by year 10, there will be 3,000 new homes; renovations and repairs to 2,500 homes; and provision of 27,000 rent subsidies. There is quite a bit that will be done under these current investments, but you quite rightly just pointed out that we are working with Métis Nation and with Inuit. We are in the third year of this 10-year investment, so there is still data coming in, and this year will actually be a pivotal year to establish exactly what these investments will cover.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you. That's good.

My time is so brief. I want to be able to hear from Madame Goulding quickly, before I move on.

Madame Goulding, are there plans for more investments?

[Janet Goulding]

I think what I would point to in this instance is the distinctions-based funding that I mentioned in my opening remarks.

We do have $150 million allocated to distinctions-based funding. This is a process of allocation that we are co-developing with our national indigenous organizations, so the impact of that funding is not yet being felt in communities. I would indicate that that's probably the most important new funding that will become available.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Super. Thank you so much.

Again, thank you to the two witnesses.

You mentioned the distinctions-based housing. I did some number crunching. With the indigenous housing strategy, what you've offered is $600 million over three years for first nations on reserve as part of a 10-year first nations housing strategy, $400 million over 10 years to support a housing plan led by Inuit, and $500 million over 10 years to support a Métis Nation housing strategy, a strategy that has yet to be released.

Indigenous people in my riding and elsewhere in Canada have not only been dispossessed of their lands, but continue to be denied the basic human right to housing. This is urgent. We've seen that during this pandemic. The strategy that is to be released is, as I indicated, inadequate.

For example, if you divide the number that was allocated to the 634 reserves, the $600 million divided by three years amounts to approximately $315,000 per community, which is.... A house sometimes costs even more because of remoteness issues.

For Inuit, you offered $400 million for 53 communities. That's just over $750,000. Lastly, for the Métis, this strategy amounts to $100 per Métis person.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Gazan, you're out of time.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sorry. Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

We're going to proceed with five-minute rounds, beginning with Mr. Vis for the Conservatives.

Mr. Vis, you have five minutes, please.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you to all the participants today, and a big shout-out to Matsqui First Nation in my riding. They recently acquired the old hospital lands in Abbotsford, where I was born. They're going to be doing some great work there, building commercial and rental housing, and I'm super excited about what that's going to do for the Matsqui Nation.

I just have a couple of housekeeping questions as we commence this very important study. The first is for CMHC. I'm going to give you a suite of questions and if you don't have the answers today, I'd like it if you could please provide them to all committee members at a later date.

For clarification, because we had a lot of information thrown at us, how many programs does the CMHC operate for the purpose of providing indigenous housing? How many people at CMHC work on indigenous housing? What is the total budget allocation for indigenous housing, in both administrative and direct program expenditures? How much does it cost your organization to produce one unit of indigenous housing, with respect to both program and administrative costs?

Now I'll go to the Department of Employment and Social Development. Madame Goulding, would you have that information available today, or should I assume that you'll report back to the committee with some of those basic points?

[Janet Goulding]

Sorry, Mr. Chair, but I will defer that to my colleague from CMHC.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Just for clarification, do you not have anyone at Employment and Social Development who works on indigenous issues?

[Janet Goulding]

Do you mean on indigenous homelessness or indigenous housing?

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes, I mean both.

[Janet Goulding]

At ESDC, we have a number of programs focused on indigenous issues, skills and training. With regard to homelessness, I can provide you with the numbers on homelessness, but in terms of our departmental resources, I'd have to report back on that.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay, thank you.

I guess I'll pass those questions on to Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, and Indigenous Services.