Human Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

It's either 480,000 units from your numbers, or the Prime Minister's number from question period on December 15, 2021, of 100,000 units.

Let's go with your number. It's a higher number that works slightly more in your favour. Scotiabank has indicated that you need 1.8 million more homes right now. Regardless of whether it's 400,000 units or 100,000 units, you're a lot of homes short.

What are you going to do urgently? It will be extraordinarily difficult to get this many homes built in the timeline that Scotiabank has indicated.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

We know that housing supply is one of the tools we need to make sure there are more homes available for Canadians, including more affordable housing. There is more work to be done. I agree with the honourable member.

That's why, in our mandate, we will move forward to implement a new housing accelerator fund to help speed up housing projects and put money on the table to enhance the capacity and the ability of municipalities, non-profits and others to build more affordable housing. It will also build a more flexible first-time homebuyer incentive, a new rent-to-own program to help renters become homeowners, and measures to prevent renovictions.

We're doing everything we can with the national housing strategy, but we intend to do more to bring in this really important and substantial housing accelerator fund. We know that a lot of the backlogs in building permits and zoning—and moving forward with more housing supplies more quickly—are at the municipal level.

What are we doing? We're working with municipalities by putting together a housing accelerator fund to enable them to build more housing supplies and to do it more quickly. This will also enable them to hire more officials and, as I said, eliminate barriers to the development of more housing much more quickly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Long, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Chair, I want you to know I'm going to share my time with MP Van Bynen.

Minister, it's always a pleasure to be able to see you.

I want to thank you for coming in today to update the committee on the important work our government is doing to ensure that every Canadian has access to a safe and affordable place to call home through the commitments outlined in your mandate letter.

In June, I was thrilled to announce, in my beautiful riding of Saint John—Rothesay, $1.3 million through the national housing co-investment fund to build the Unified Saint John Housing Co-operative's Victoria Street building. It includes 14 housing units primarily intended for low-income women, including women and children. This project is truly transformational for the old north end of Saint John. It represents a strong vote of confidence on the part of our government in the co-op housing model.

Can you explain how our government is building on investments like this to help support co-op housing through our national housing strategy?

Thanks, Minister.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you so much.

I remember making that important announcement in your constituency.

Our government is taking concrete actions to protect the most vulnerable Canadians. I'm proud of the fact that our national housing strategy is doing exactly that. We announced a new $4.3-billion Canada community housing initiative, through the national housing strategy, that is helping to protect community-based housing for some 330,000 households across the country. In addition to this, a few weeks ago we announced $118.2 million over seven years through the federal community housing initiative, to support 18,000 units of community housing. This will preserve these units and their affordability and protect the most vulnerable. This is on top of our previous investment of $500 million for the federal community housing initiative, which will protect tenants and stabilize the operations of some 55,000 affordable housing units in federally administered community housing projects.

The co-op sector and the co-op model have worked really well in all parts of Canada, including in Nova Scotia, where the honourable member made that announcement with me. It shows that our national housing strategy is working right across the country from coast to coast to coast. We're tackling the housing needs of Canadians right across the housing spectrum, from those on the street who need a permanent place to call home, to those who need co-op, non-profit and deeply affordable housing, to building more purpose-built rental buildings through the rental construction financing initiative.

We're also enabling more Canadians to access their dream of home ownership through the first-time homebuyer incentive.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Minister, thank you very much.

I'll pass it over to MP Van Bynen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Van Bynen, you have three minutes.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know housing is the foundation to building better lives and to sharing in the prosperity of our community. In 2020, our government provided $79 million to help finance the construction of 216 residential units in my riding of Newmarket—Aurora. It's important for our community to see the grassroots implications of these important projects.

I thought this was a great approach because it created a business model without the federal, provincial, regional or municipal governments needing to provide grants or funding. It was able to move the project forward by transferring the risk of construction.

Can you explain how the funding from the rental construction financing initiative is helping more families find a safe and affordable place to call home?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I love this program. The rental construction financing issue is really about building the next generation of rental housing in our communities. As we all know, the very people who contribute to making our communities and urban centres dynamic and providing a good quality of life for all of us are increasingly being priced out of the rental market, and they're having to move further and further away from the places in which they work. Through the rental construction financing initiative, we are contributing to the building of 71,000 new rental units across the country, enabling teachers, construction workers, paramedics, firefighters and others to stay in the places where they work and play.

It's a financing initiative. We get all that money back, but in exchange for that financing we create rental housing and communities, because one of the conditions of the rental construction financing initiative is that folks who apply for that financing have to build close to transit, close to work, and close to schools and community services. We are building communities. They also have to abide by our energy efficiency and accessibility guidelines.

We are making a difference. One of the projects I was lucky enough to announce before we moved virtually—and I was there in person—was the first purpose-built rental building in Coquitlam since 1971. With 301 units of affordable rental housing, 100 will be deeply affordable. Right across from a transit hub, right next to a YMCA, the building was built in collaboration with the Government of Canada, the Government of British Columbia, the City of Coquitlam, a non-profit organization and a private developer. That's how we build more rental housing in Canada. The rental construction financing initiative is working really well to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Van Bynen, your time is up. I would just remind you, if you come in again, to unmute your microphone. You're speaking through your laptop and it's causing problems for translation.

We go to Madame Chabot for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will give my time to my dear colleague, Denis Trudel, member for Longueuil—Saint-Hubert.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Trudel, you have the floor.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my colleague for giving me her time so that I may speak with the minister.

Hello, Minister. I am pleased to be speaking with you today.

I would also like to greet my colleague for Hochelaga and Ms. Bowers, whom I see onscreen right now, as well as the other members of the committee.

I am very pleased that we are discussing housing today.

Currently, housing needs are growing faster than the number of dwellings being built, namely because of record levels of immigration and the real estate crisis we are experiencing. I'm not telling you anything new.

There is therefore a chronic lack of housing, especially social and community housing for the most vulnerable. In fact, Canada has a considerable shortage compared to other G7 countries. I'm referring here to the Scotiabank study published two weeks ago, of which you are no doubt aware. According to this study, Canada is last among G7 countries when it comes to housing. Indeed, Canada is missing 1.8 million dwellings, just to reach the average of G7 countries. Canada has 424 dwellings per 1000 residents, when the average is 471.

What is the plan to turn this around? What do we have to do now to start building housing at a rate faster than the increase in need?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you for the question.

It is a very important question. Housing supply is something we're very much seized with. We understand the importance of building more housing supply faster.

One of the things we have noticed, obviously, and it should be clear to all members, is that we in the federal government have a role, and so do the provinces and territories. We also know and understand the critical role played by municipal authorities in the zoning policies and permitting processes that lead to more housing. We have to be there with them to incentivize things like inclusionary zoning, transit-oriented development, and speed up the permitting and zoning processes so we can build more much-needed housing supply and do it faster. We're doing that through the housing accelerator fund, and we intend to work with them.

In addition to that, I want to tell the honourable member that the national housing strategy programs are trying to address the different housing needs of different Canadians who are in different parts of the housing spectrum.

If you look at what we intend to do, for example, we are enabling more federal lands to become available to non-profits to build more affordable housing. We are using the housing accelerator fund to offset the cost of land, so municipalities can build more affordable housing. We are introducing programs like the rent-to-own program to enable more Canadians to own their first home, and we are enhancing the first-time homebuyer incentive.

We know there's more work to be done. The national housing strategy has achieved many outcomes. We're blowing past our targets, if you look at the rapid housing initiative, for example. For a program that just started recently, we are on track to build 10,250 units.

The housing accelerator fund, and other ways in which we can move forward, will enable us to really address the issue of housing supply, including more affordable housing of course.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you for the answer.

I'd like to come back to the proposals you made during the last election campaign, which were to double the tax credit for buying a first home, create a tax-free savings account for first-time buyers, levy a tax to prevent the successive purchase and resale of residential properties and temporarily ban the purchase of residential property by foreign buyers. Also, Bill C‑8 will introduce a tax on underused housing.

The five proposals I just outlined focus mainly on demand, but experts everywhere in the country are pointing to the lack of truly affordable housing.

Are you aware that your national strategy is ineffective when it comes to building housing? What is the plan to encourage the construction of more social housing?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The plan is to enable us to continue the progress we have made through the national housing strategy. Those programs will continue, and they are delivering more affordable housing, but in addition to that, we recognize more work needs to be done.

The housing accelerator fund that I referred to in my previous answer is not exclusively for building more affordable housing. It's for building more housing supply, period. As part of that mix, that housing accelerator fund can and will be used for building more affordable housing by municipalities, for example, by offsetting the cost of land.

We also intend to make more federal lands available for the building of more affordable housing. That's another way we're encouraging the building of more affordable housing. The federal lands initiative is a great model. We need to expand it. As I just mentioned, our support for the co-op sector is going to continue.

We know a lot of work has been done, but more work needs to be done. I agree with you that we need to build more affordable housing in Canada. That's exactly what we're doing, including the recently announced results of the rapid housing initiative, through which 10,250 permanent new affordable housing units will be built. That's progress. That's 10,250 people or families who will be off the street and have a permanent place to call home.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Trudel.

Now, for six minutes, we go to Madam Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to get right into it, because I have only six minutes, and it's a big topic.

Minister, you talked about Coquitlam. I need to share with you the “behind the scenes” of what happened in Coquitlam.

For eight years I've been in a microcosm of what's being proposed and some of the things you talked about today. The blame on the municipalities is something I take big issue with, so I want to share with you what happened.

First of all, that development wasn't the first one. There was another development on the corner of Charland and Blue Mountain, 40 units of purpose-built rentals. The people or organization that built that unit were expecting a GST rebate of almost half a million dollars, because they owned the land and they used the land to build some purpose-built rentals. They didn't get their GST exemption. That was half a million dollars that went right onto those rents. I want you to know that's not the first one.

Second of all, in that community, in that area, it wasn't until the eleventh hour that the federal government came forward. We went through years and years of displacing people in that community from the purpose-built rental units that were in the community. The lowest-income people, Syrian refugees, came into that space. We lost hundreds of units of affordable housing. I personally walked into those units and talked to people.

Here are some examples.

A 72-year-old man begged me to find him a long-term care home to go to, because he had nowhere to go. There was a mother with a child, a teenager with a disability, who went from paying $800 a month to $1,200 a month for rent. The problem was that the developer came and told them all they needed to get out even before the zoning came to the city.

The third one was a woman my age, living on disability, who could not find anywhere to live. She was living in her car with her pet for almost three months after she was displaced. I'm telling you that there are people being displaced with this market drive to get municipalities to upzone. Our municipality is a microcosm. We approved thousands of units of housing, and it pushed people who couldn't afford to be there anymore out of the community. It pitted neighbour against neighbour, because there was like a gold rush of real estate agents knocking on people's doors, harassing them.

I was sitting in council chambers, begging real estate agents to leave people alone, people in their seventies and eighties who were getting five or six door knocks a week asking them to move out of their homes because that land was worth so much.

I want to let you know that in Coquitlam we did an official community plan change with a bunch of changes allowing for potential upzonings. It drove up the value of the land to the point where people had to leave. People couldn't be there anymore, and the richest developers and real estate agents took advantage of that. The same thing is happening now in Coquitlam, on the north end. We approved an official community plan. There's an opportunity for a bunch of upzoning. I sat in chambers and asked them not to touch the areas where low-income seniors are living in these co-ops.

Do you know what's happening right now, Minister? These real estate investment trusts are going after these pieces of land. They're going to be pushing out more seniors into our community. I'm begging you to understand and listen to what's happening to people on the ground, because I'm very concerned that we are going to continue to drive investment vehicles in our housing market rather than getting people housed, because the only people who are benefiting from this upzoning are the ones who can afford to buy the land and build these massive towers.

I was talking to a women, Minister, right where you were standing, a 65-year-old woman who is still working as an EA in our school district, who said to me, “My next home is going to be a tent, because the real estate agents are pushing me out of this community.”

Please understand that I am so happy that there is at least finally a federal look at housing, but please understand that there are people on the ground hurting from these flat upzones, from this idea that it needs to be close to transit. It's not happening the way we want it to.

I want to talk a bit about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Zarrillo, I need to get permission from the committee to continue, because the bells are ringing.

Do we have consent, as we discussed earlier?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The committee will continue.

Ms. Zarrillo, do you want the minister to respond?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I have one question for him.

My concern is—and I've heard rumblings about it—that they have this program for federal lands to get housing. I have heard some rumblings in the last month that the plan is to sell these federal lands to developers.

I want to get assurance from the minister that these federal lands will remain in private hands and it will be social housing that will be built, owned by the government, on these federal lands.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have to respond?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have one minute.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you.

Let me make it absolutely clear: Federal lands that are made available to communities are made available only for affordable housing. They're made only to make sure that the housing that goes on those federal lands will add to our stock, our national numbers of affordable housing. I can make that absolutely clear. No federal lands will be used to build housing that is not affordable. It will always, always be on that condition. Anyone who wants to access the federal lands initiative has to abide by those conditions.

The second point I want to make is with regard to something you spoke about. In no way, shape or form did I imply that there's a problem with municipalities, per se. We work very closely with municipalities. In fact, on our rapid housing initiative, we were able to exceed our targets because of our close collaboration with municipalities and the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. We intend to work with them through the housing accelerator fund, because we recognize that projects are taking too long. The supply of housing needs to come on board faster and in larger quantities.

When I say “housing supply”, I mean both deeply affordable housing and housing supply for middle-class Canadians. It's about incentivizing them to do that.