Human Resources Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

However, Secretary of State, you used section 107 to order flight attendants back to work with a contract that you knew was not paying them for work before the flight took off. How can you sit here with a straight face and say that no one should work unpaid when you used section 107 to order flight attendants back to work under the existing collective agreement, which included their not being paid for pre-flight activities? How can you say that this shouldn't happen? You made it happen.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'm going to finish my answer that was cut off. I'm not going to speak over the microphone.

I don't want that to be seen as....

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You can give a short answer, Secretary.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'm going to ask you to make sure that I have the opportunity to answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Secretary, please be very brief. We're now over the six minutes.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Okay. I will pick this up in the next round, I'm sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I bet you will.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Seeback. Your time has gone.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We'll go to Ms. Fancy for six minutes.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Through you, welcome, Secretary. Thank you for coming today.

Up until the last election, I was a unionized worker provincially. I was an educator. I know there is a fine line when you're working with unions and within government, so I can respect that.

In your introduction, you talked about budget 2025 in terms of unions, tradespeople and skilled workers. I gave a speech earlier about the budget and the need for the support of our unions and workers who are helping to build these nation-building projects. I wonder if you could explain how the investments in workers, especially the union training and innovation program, are central to Canada's broader economic and infrastructure goals.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you very much for that question.

I'd like to take the opportunity to highlight that our budget 2025 is about putting workers first. Every part of this budget is about equipping Canadians, especially workers, for the economy we're trying to build. It's fundamentally about building a stronger economy by investing in Canadians. This is important: We are making the largest infrastructure investment in Canadian history and pairing it with generational funding for housing and workforce development. That means more jobs, more apprenticeships and more opportunities for every region.

Don't take my word for it. Let me tell you what Canada’s Building Trades Unions had to say about this budget. It said, “Budget 2025 contains monumental wins for members of Canada’s Building Trades Unions, including $50 billion in investments for local infrastructure, $75 million over the next three years for the Union Training and Innovation Program (UTIP), new Clean Economy Investment Tax Credits...and the introduction of Community Employment Benefits Agreements”.

It continued, “CBTU is grateful to all Parliamentarians who supported the Federal Budget and acted in the best interest of all Canadians. We stand ready to work with the federal government, industry, and labour partners to deliver on the commitments made.”

Mr. Chair, if I may, I have one more important quote I think I should read from LiUNA Western Canada, which said, “We support the Federal Liberal Government's CANADA STRONG Budget 2025. The Budget 2025 addresses major priorities of LIUNA Western Canada, including the new Build Communities Strong Fund which, in conjunction with the Major Projects Office, will result in thousands of great paying Union jobs right across Western Canada, benefiting local communities, Indigenous peoples, and women in the construction industry.”

It continued, “We also applaud the middle class tax cut as well as major new funding for Arctic Infrastructure, critical mineral development, port and rail infrastructure, affordable housing construction, and clean and renewable energy development...And finally, Budget 2025 will ensure more fulsome and effective compliance inspections under the International Mobility Program (IMP) as we continue to call for the ban of the use of the IMP in the construction industry”.

It ended, “We support Budget 2025 and look forward to doing our part to BUILD CANADA STRONG TOGETHER.”

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's nice. Thank you very much, Secretary.

I'd like to give you the rest of my time to finish your answer to the question that was cut off before and/or to explain what some of your top priorities are within your mandate.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to draw the committee's attention, with respect, to the Air Canada probe. I think it's important for the committee to recognize that the Canada Labour Code rests with Minister Hajdu. I know Minister Hajdu will be presenting before the committee in the coming weeks, so it's important to note that she, ultimately, has decisions on the labour code.

With respect to the issue with Air Canada, no work should go unpaid. Minister Hajdu ordered a probe into that matter. I'm not going to prejudge the results of that study. They will come by the end of the year. That's the piece I wanted to conclude there.

Budget 2025 is an investment in workers and our economy. We see positive momentum in our economy with 60,000 jobs created in September and 67,000 jobs created in October. Wages are up 3.5%. Inflation is now within the Bank of Canada's target range. It includes the largest infrastructure investment in Canadian history; a well-deserved raise for our military and major investments into defence spending; tools that will make our economy more competitive; the productivity superdeduction, which will allow our businesses to make needed investments in equipment; a tax cut that will benefit 22 million Canadians; a national school food program; a tax credit for personal support workers, a much-needed investment in our people who take care of our elderly; 1,000 RCMP personnel; and 1,000 border guards.

These are all matters that the Conservatives voted against.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'd like to thank you for coming today and being able to explain your mandate and some of the things that you're excited about in working within your new role there, Mr. Secretary.

Thank you.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Fancy.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the secretary of state for being with us today to answer our questions.

I already have a request for the secretary of state: I would like to receive a document describing his mandate. He's here today to talk to us about his mandate, but we know very well that Mr. Carney broke with tradition by not giving separate mandate letters to each of the secretaries of state and ministers. Rather, it is a single mandate letter that applies to everyone. So I would like him to provide us, if possible, with a document describing his mandate for this Parliament.

That said, I really liked hearing the secretary of state say earlier that his government should support workers. I hope so. I would like to think that governments are there to support workers. I do have some concerns, and I would like the secretary of state to address each of the following points.

On the one hand, the most recent budget provides for the elimination of 40,000 public service positions. On the other hand, since last week, people have been bragging about how jobs will be created.

So I would like to ask the secretary of state the very question that CUPE, the Canadian Union of Public Employees, is asking: how can jobs be created when jobs are being cut?

Furthermore, I dare not even imagine what services to the public will be eliminated, in addition to the elimination of good union jobs in various places in Canada, including the regions.

I also have a question about Canada Post. I would like to talk not only about the job cuts that may be considered there, given the mandate given by Mr. Carney, but also about Purolator. The Liberal government also boasted about passing anti-scab legislation. However, the situation at Canada Post in connection with Purolator could be akin to a situation in which scabs would be used to do the work, which would be in violation of this act. That's how I see it, but I'd like to hear the secretary of state's opinion on the matter.

I have three quick questions.

You mentioned employment insurance, but in fact, there is absolutely nothing in this budget to indicate that the federal government will reform employment insurance. It's as if we were telling workers in my region, the North Shore, as well as those in all the other forestry regions, that they should train in a new field and that, while waiting to find a new job, they should take advantage of EI, since that's what it's there for. In other words, they're being told that they'll lose their jobs, but that, in the worst-case scenario, they'll be able to retrain for a while and then go to work in another sector. However, that doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

So I'd like you to tell us about the support you provide to the forestry sector. If you don't have time to discuss this it during the committee meeting, I invite you to send us your response in writing.

We've talked about section 107 of the Canada Labour Code at length, but I'd like you to explain what you intend to do about it. Not only are there a lot of occurrences, but using it has become commonplace. Indeed, as we said at the last committee meeting, the Liberal government is using section 107 increasingly often. It's no longer a rare practice.

I'd like to know your opinion on the use of section 107. Personally, I get the impression that a kind of tradition is taking hold. I know that Minister Hajdu is also part of the equation, obviously, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

Finally, I would like to raise the issue of pensions. Not only is the Correctional Service of Canada's budget being cut by 15%, but you have also decided to cut pensions. I'm surprised to see that a Secretary of State for Labour, who says he wants to support workers, would decide to reduce what constitutes a negotiated wage. Retirement income is a negotiated salary. In this case, by deciding to reduce a negotiated salary, we are violating a salary provision that was freely negotiated.

As you can see, I submitted a request and several questions. Let me summarize them.

Initially, with regard to the mandate letter, I asked you to send us your mandate objectives in writing. We're more than six months after your appointment as Secretary of State for Labour, so I'd like to get some clarification on your mandate.

Then I got to asking you questions on five different topics. I know that's a lot to cover at the same time, but I was really looking forward to talking to you. I'm very happy that you can answer my questions, Mr. Secretary of State, so I will stop talking and give you the rest of my time to answer them.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Indeed, there are a lot of elements in your questions. I'm sorry, my French is poor, so I'm going to answer you in English, so it's clearer.

I've noted your request to provide some of these answers in writing. We will do that for you, because there's a lot to cover, and I probably have less than a minute left to get back to you.

Let me be clear about the mandate. We're focused on building a stronger Canada with skilled workers using Canadian steel, lumber and aluminum. My mandate is to support Minister Hajdu in promoting safe, fair and inclusive workplaces while strengthening labour relations across federally regulated sectors.

My work focuses on three areas: improving labour mobility to build one Canadian economy, expanding training and apprenticeship pathways, and lowering costs, improving quality of life and supporting a more resilient economy by ensuring workers can succeed in the jobs of today and tomorrow.

I might just turn in a minute—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Secretary, that is it. Thank you.

We now have to move on to Mr. Reynolds for five minutes.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Secretary of State, for coming here today.

One of the Prime Minister's priorities in the spring in his mandate letter was this: “Building one Canadian economy by removing barriers to interprovincial trade and identifying and expediting nation-building projects that will connect and transform our country.”

In June the government passed Bill C-5, the Free Trade and Labour Mobility in Canada Act and Building Canada Act. One of the keys to labour mobility and to building Canada is the harmonization of construction safety standards. As the sitting vice-president of IBEW Local 2085 in Manitoba, I have many friends who take jobs in other provinces, such as Ontario, and it's difficult because the safety courses aren't recognized interprovincially. For example, working at heights or aerial work platform certificates are regional. It's crazy, because all the equipment is the same. Harnesses are the same. Lifts are the same. That's just one example.

What has been done so far to harmonize construction safety certifications interprovincially?

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'd like to thank the member for that intervention. I think that's a very good question.

Labour mobility is essential to building our economy, especially as we deliver housing and major projects.

On a personal note, your previous union is contributing a lot to Canada and to the economy, so thank you for the work you do, and thank you for serving here today.

Labour mobility is critical to our economic growth. Skilled workers still face barriers when moving between provinces, as you note. I spoke at the committee for internal trade yesterday as we presented our plan on working with labour ministers across the country.

I may turn, just for a moment, to Deputy Hassan, who can speak a bit more about the technicalities of the harmonization of the safety regulations. It's certainly something that I believe in, and I would welcome your work together to move those forward, because I think it's critical to building a Canadian economy, one that will be better for workers.

Deputy Hassan.

[Sandra Hassan, Deputy Minister of Labour and Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you.

There is a federal-provincial-territorial committee that looks at the issue of occupational health and safety, and we are seized with the importance of making sure we focus on harmonization of those rules. We had a meeting in October and we have impressed on that committee the need for those rules to be prioritized, so as to, hopefully, come to agreement with the provinces and territories on that issue.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I have to say that gravity is the same whether you're in P.E.I. or in British Columbia, and there should be no reason why a worker in Prince Edward Island cannot work efficiently. This is something that we're seized of and the committee is seized of and that we will continue to work on as effectively and as fast as we can.