Human Resources Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I thank the secretary of state for being with us.

I mentioned the mandate letter. You talked about building a strong Canada through the budget. More specifically, I would like to know what your five objectives are. Mr. Carney has given you a fair amount of freedom, which may be why you don't have a very specific mandate letter. In any event, you've been in your position for six months, so I imagine you know very well what your five main objectives are. I would be grateful if you would share that with me.

What would you like to have accomplished at the end of your four-year mandate, if it goes that far, of course? I understand that you want to build a strong Canada, but that remains abstract to me. In concrete terms, what are your objectives? You can only have three, too. If they represent a huge amount of work, that may be enough.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you for the question.

My role is in supporting Minister Hajdu in her role as the Minister of Jobs and Families. I'm working closely with her on a number of areas, including strengthening partnerships between unions and employers, improving labour mobility and expanding apprenticeship and training programs.

Particularly, the Prime Minister has tasked us with supporting those missions across the government from credential recognition to workforce development, ensuring—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

I apologize for interrupting you, Mr. Secretary of State. I think you're reading from a document. I understand that you're saying that your work supports the work of the minister. However, what are your own objectives? I imagine that, as secretary of state, you also want to accomplish certain things. Of course, we all enter politics with ideas and a desire to help our constituents. What are your objectives? What do you want to achieve during your term in office?

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you for the question.

In summary, it's to help workers get better skills and get better jobs.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Okay. So you're talking about skills and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Seeback, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In your response to the question from my colleague from the Bloc, you said you considered one of your roles to be to strengthen labour relations.

I'm going to go back to the questions that I was asking before. Do you think the government's use of section 107 eight times in the last 14 months strengthened labour relations in this country?

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question from the honourable member.

Our role is to uphold balanced labour relations in Canada that protect workers' rights, maintain stability for employers and serve Canadians' broader interests. That's what's key to keeping our economy moving forward.

I'm aware that this committee is conducting a study on 107. I'm aware that there's a bill moving through Parliament discussing 107, but again, this government strongly supports free and fair collective bargaining. The best deals are the ones at the table, and the reality is that 97%—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Secretary, my question took 20 seconds. I let you go on for a minute and you didn't answer it.

I'm going to put something to you. The head of CUPE's Air Canada component said, “The Liberals have talked out of both sides of their mouths. They said the best place for this is at the bargaining table.... Now, when we're at the bargaining table with an obstinate employer, the Liberals are violating our Charter rights to take job action”. Section 107 has had a corrosive effect on the bargaining environment in recent years.

Do you agree or disagree with that statement that section 107 has had a corrosive effect on the bargaining environment in recent years?

Mr. Lesosky will be here later, so I'm going to make sure he's aware of your response.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that question.

No work should go unpaid. That is why Minister Hajdu ordered a probe into the very specific issues around the Air Canada dispute with airline attendants.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

With all due respect—

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'm not going to prejudge the study.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

That wasn't my question. My question wasn't about a study into unpaid work. My question was whether you agree with the statement that your use of section 107 has had a corrosive effect on the bargaining environment.

If you don't want to answer it, you could say, “I'm not going to answer that”, but reading prepared notes that are unrelated to the question doesn't actually help anyone.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'm actually answering the question directly. In fact, you are the one who raised the example of Air Canada, and I'm trying to provide you the answer that you're looking for, which is that no work should go unpaid—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I wasn't asking about unpaid work. I was asking about whether or not the use of section 107 has a corrosive effect on the bargaining environment. That was my question. I am not asking about unpaid work.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I remind the honourable member that 97% of federally regulated disputes are resolved without work stoppage. That speaks to the quality of the labour relations mediation service. The tools in the labour code exist for only exceptional circumstances.

Again, I'll remind the member of a number of recent examples, like DHL and Unifor bargaining units across Canada. There was no intervention by the federal government. That matter was resolved without intervention. Our government strongly believes in free and fair collective bargaining. The best deals are the ones at the table, and the reality is that 97% of disputes in federally regulated sectors are resolved without a work stoppage.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Minister, that has nothing to do with the question I asked. However, if you want to talk about how people shouldn't work without pay, were you or were you not aware that flight attendants in this country, prior to the strike on April 16, 2025, spent a significant amount of time working without pay? Were you aware of that or not? They had a huge, massive PR campaign on it, so you had to have been aware.

[John Zerucelli, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you for that question. I appreciate the honourable member's interest in this matter.

As I've said, no work should go unpaid. With respect to the flight attendants and the dispute with Air Canada—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You ordered them back to work under the existing collective agreement where they weren't being paid. How can you make that statement?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Just a moment....

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The member is speaking over the secretary of state, which is causing problems for the interpretation. He has to stop interrupting him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Joseph.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chair, obviously, the secretary of state is not going to answer any of my questions, so I will conclude my time.