Human Resources Committee on March 9th, 2026

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I would like to ask Mr. and Mrs. Cormier, and also Ms. Wu, to chime in. Could you provide us with your comments on the same question?

[Carmen Wu]

I couldn't say it better than what's already been said. In terms of my loss, it was nine years ago, and I would echo the same thing as the panel providing their statements here. It's very similar. Even within the nine years, people's understanding of grief, the taboo.... It feels like taboo. People going through grief feel the need to be normal. Everyone grieves differently, and the time when they're ready can be different depending on who it is.

[Sarah Cormier]

Originally, when we approached Mr. Richards, we said perhaps there would be some sort of sensitivity training, because I used the statement—this is forever etched in our minds—that your child ceases to exist, therefore your benefits cease to exist. We said to him right off the hop that maybe some sensitivity training.... That was in the initial stages of grief, and we know now that it probably wasn't the best statement that we made, but perhaps there could be some grief education for Service Canada employees. Of course, by sharing our story we're educating all the time, so just with more education for Service Canada, let's start there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I, too, would like to offer my condolences to Ms. Wu, the Slinn family and the Cormier family. Ms. Koutrakis spoke as a grandmother, and she was deeply moved. For my part, a few days ago I celebrated my daughter’s fourth birthday. She is the most precious thing one can have. What these families have been through is something we would not wish on anyone. They have my deepest sympathy.

During a speech in the House, I announced my support for Bill C‑222. I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate that we are calling for a reform of the Employment Insurance Act, so that it is more feminist and more humane, and takes into account the difficult situations that anyone may face; there are many such situations.

I will now return to the matter that particularly concerns us today, namely, the situation our valued witnesses have experienced.

Mr. Cormier, my colleague Mr. Richards asked you a question about work-life balance and the support you received. I would like to hear more about that.

If any other witness—Ms. Wu or a member of the Slinn family—would like to speak to their expertise and their personal experience, I invite them to do so as well.

Ms. Spinks, I would like you to tell us about your expertise on work-life balance. In the response, training was mentioned, but how should employers adapt their practices to better support bereaved parents?

[Nora Spinks]

I have to reinforce what was said earlier, that you cannot educate and train enough. When this bill is enacted, as I fully believe it will be—soon, I hope—I think part of what will go along with it will include training and resources and support for employers. If we implement Evan's law as it's proposed at this point, it will still be considered maternity and parental leave. It will be easier to get people to broaden and understand how they will implement something that they're already familiar with. Employers will need to understand how they can fit this new program into their existing benefits. If maternity and parental benefits get a top-up, then certainly grieving parents should get the same top-up.

There are a number of things employers can do. In particular, they can educate themselves and the managers and give time for co-workers to be ready for the re-entry of the grieving parent into the workplace. Service Canada is absolutely the first place for training and development to occur. Then it's people like co-workers and colleagues.

Organizations like those developed by the Slinns and the Cormiers are enormous resources. We don't have to reinvent anything. They already have these resources. The Pregnancy and Infant Loss Network out of Sunnybrook and others already have these resources. I think PAIL is up to 16 or 17 languages in terms of resources. We don't have to start over. If you enact this bill tomorrow, this material can get out through the community networks very, very quickly.

[Lee Cormier]

I think we've discussed a bit about training employers and other employees. I think a lot of it, though, really changes when you aren't forced to go back to work immediately. You have time to go through your grief. You have time to stabilize prior to going back to work. You don't have to go back to work feeling raw. It would benefit people if they had some time to process and work through a few things, including all the small things that trigger and that become substantially less than immediately after.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. and Mrs. Cormier, is there anything that could be added to Bill C‑222 to address the specific needs of a family mourning the loss of a child?

[Sarah Cormier]

There aren't, not that I can think of at this moment. I should have prepared for that one.

[Lee Cormier]

I think overall it's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We have to move on.

We will go to Mr. Genuis for five minutes, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Cormier, I don't normally do this, but if you want to continue the thought you were about to express, I will give you some time for that.

[Lee Cormier]

I was just going to say that over the last 10 years, we've seen things added on. We came with a certain intention when we started 10 years ago. I think everything that we've tried to work in has been covered. There have been some other things added that I think benefit, for sure, but I don't really see anything different at this time that we would be asking for.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'll go to you in a second, Mr. Slinn.

If I can just share a couple of thoughts from a preamble perspective, I want to thank all of you very much for being here. I think it's really powerful when people are able to turn personal pain into public advocacy. As parliamentarians, we need to hear your stories so that we can act on the insights that you share.

I know there are many more people who have these kinds of experiences of pain and who, for very understandable reasons, are not able to bring them forward or are not comfortable in bringing them forward. I know that all of you represent many others who would like their stories heard but are not able to share them.

I do want to thank my colleague, Blake Richards, who's subbing in at this committee. He's been leading on this issue for 10 years in Parliament.

I think the partisan aspects of this place get a lot of attention. They say sometimes that when there's conflict, that's what gets the attention, but this place is at its best when we can build on each other's work—when there's a good idea that comes from one party and then someone else takes it a bit further and someone else takes it a bit further. In reality, that's how we make the country better.

Thank you for mentioning motion 110. That, I think, was pivotal to starting this.

I wanted to ask a practical question around the application of this bill in Quebec. I don't know if anyone can help me with this, but my understanding is that Quebec has a different parental leave system. I wonder if there's anyone who can clarify the details in terms of how this bill would apply in the context of Quebec's distinct system of leave.

[Nora Spinks]

I can take that one.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's perfect. Thank you.

[Nora Spinks]

Quebec has a distinct parental leave program called QPIP. Quebec monitors and delivers all of that.

In some cases, the federal programs sort of overreach the provincial, and that's usually when there is something new or something innovative that's available in one part of the country that's not available in Quebec.

What's really important here is that there's really a focus on equity: What's available here is what we're going to see happen there. We're seeing that across provinces now. They offer unpaid days off for people to breathe—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

If I can just jump in, I understand the point you're making about jurisdictions learning from each other. Just so I understand, in practice, for this change to be operationalized as part of the Quebec program, it would require a law to be passed in Quebec. Is that correct?

[Nora Spinks]

That's correct.

This one is for people who are eligible for EI. They have to complete all the eligibility criteria for maternity parental benefits under the employment insurance program.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. That is an important clarification, just for our knowledge.

On this side, we have also talked about the need to deal with bereavement leave when a parent has died. That's different from the experiences we've heard about today, but we're proposing the addition of that concept to the bill, if there's agreement. Obviously, the key priority is getting this done, but if there's agreement, that's a concept we'd like to include as well.

I know that's different from the experiences you've represented, but I just wanted to raise that and ask if anybody has thoughts or reflections on a continuation of parental leave when the parent passes away and it would otherwise be cut off.

[Nora Spinks]

If there are two parents, they have the option to split the parental portion. The maternity portion is for birth mothers only.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry. Is that only if they're eligible?

[Nora Spinks]

Yes, it is if they're eligible.

If the mother dies and does not access their maternity benefits, it is possible that the father can receive the maternity and parental benefits. It's not like the parental benefits are lost. If it were embedded in the law, it would provide clarity for families and for administrators.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's only in the case where they'd both be eligible. Sometimes they're not both eligible.

[Nora Spinks]

That's correct.