Evidence of meeting #47 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was trade.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
If you think about an oil well driller in Alberta, that's a 6% completion rate. An electrician is generally in the 80% range.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
It's a good question. It would be good to see if we could get an analysis from across the country.
The promoter of the bill, Mr. Bains, will now have five minutes for questions.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to my colleagues for giving me an opportunity to join the HUMA committee and ask some questions.
My first question is for Ms. Watts-Rynard.
As the sponsor of the bill, I'd like to thank you for your hard work, your ultimate support of the trades in general and your outspoken support for the spirit of this bill.
The bill specifically identifies training and educational institutions as stakeholders in the development of the framework. What role should colleges and polytechnics play in harmonizing standards across Canada?
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
When we think about any institution, there is a sense, particularly in the skilled trades, that the curriculum is determined at a provincial level and there are differences across the country. There is a real opportunity to think about the trainers. We have instructors who have come from industry and who themselves have a Red Seal certification or a certification in a trade. They have a sense of what makes sense to do first, what makes sense to do second and how those things build on each other. If we put that expertise to work, we'd really have a system that would allow for us to build on best practices across the country, which is not something we worry too much about right now.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC
In which trades are you currently experiencing the greatest challenges with interprovincial mobility and why?
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
I haven't looked at data with regard to interprovincial mobility for a while. I'm hopeful that the interprovincial agreement to put in place a 30-day opportunity for someone to apply to move between provinces will take away some of the friction. I wouldn't be able to say a trade in particular. I know that apprentices do have a hard time moving between provinces. That work has only been done in the Red Seal trades.
To the point made in the earlier panel, not all trades are Red Seal trades. We have to think about what the demand is and then how we actually try to overcome that.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC
You spoke a lot about data. Within this framework, there is an opportunity to generate data collection. That's some of the work you're hopeful for. You also talked about the varying curricula. Questions have arisen about how long certification or recertification can take.
Can you shed some light on the gaps between interprovincial mobility and having to recertify? How long can that duration be?
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
The nominal period of most trades is four years. It can already take up to eight years for somebody to complete in their trade. That is in part because there are gaps in employment. You're sitting at home waiting for another job to come up. In part it's because you're waiting for a trade school.
One thing I would say about the efficiency of the system is that we really don't know where there's a seat available in another school that could move people forward more quickly. That's not something we do. If there is a major project in British Columbia, for example, and we have a high need for plumbers, it is possible that trade school is not available when somebody is ready to progress in their trade, but that isn't to say that there are no plumbing seats available in any other parts of the country.
I'd like to see a much more streamlined system. This is a place where data could play a role, not just in terms what projects are coming up and what we're going to need, but also in terms of efficiency and efficient movement through the education system.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC
The efficiency of mobility to train would also be an effective thing.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
That was good questioning. Thank you.
Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you, again, to both witnesses for being here today.
Ms. Watts‑Rynard and Ms. Lovelady, I'm going to ask you a question about another aspect of the bill that you may have had a chance to think about.
Clause 6 of the bill provides that a committee of the House or Senate shall undertake a review of the national framework that would be created by the act within five years of its coming into force.
In your opinion, what criteria should be looked at in five years to assess whether the national framework is working well and whether the objectives have been met? Have you thought about the criteria this committee could look at?
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
In my view, we should be assessing success in moving people to where they are required and in seeing apprentices and tradespeople less often collecting unemployment insurance and less often sitting and waiting on an out-of-work list for another opportunity that's being offered. Efficiency is what I would be looking for the framework to collect and report on.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
What do you think, Ms. Lovelady? What criteria could we look at in five years to evaluate the legislation and determine whether we're going in the right direction or not?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Academy Canada
I would build on the previous comments. I agree with that.
It would be excellent if we could also have criteria around ensuring that Canadians know about it, with an awareness of the careers in trades and the opportunities in trades for all people, and then an awareness of the portability of those credentials. If we could increase the awareness of these things, it would increase the number of people who are trying the trades and getting involved in them in the first place, because we need more people.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Larouche.
We'll go to Mr. Reynolds for five minutes.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, witnesses, for coming here today.
As a bit of background, I mentioned in the first panel that I'm a 20-year construction electrician, and I'm also an alumnus of Red River College Polytechnic. That's where I took all my levels and got my training, so I appreciate you coming here and bringing the perspective from the polytechnic and the training side of the skilled trades.
I want to ask both of you the same question. What do you see as the biggest barrier to skilled trades mobility in Canada right now?
I'll start with you, Ms. Watts-Rynard.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
If I'm completely honest, I think the biggest barrier is a lack of desire among people to pick up and move across the country. I see tradespeople do this all the time. They leave their families behind, go to work and then come back. I think that will continue to be our biggest challenge.
It's not just the number of people who decide to pursue the trades and stay in the trades, but the number of people who are willing to move from one part of the country to the other, because we've built a culture of, “Stay where you are. There's going to be work around the corner for you.” That's something that, as a country, we have to be able to wrap our arms around.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you.
Ms. Lovelady, could you weigh in on that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Academy Canada
My graduate data supports what Ms. Watts-Rynard just said.
Before 2014, we graduated many trade students, and they went to Alberta, specifically Fort McMurray, and worked in the oil sands. Some of them did hitches—they came back and forth—and other people settled in Alberta. These days, our graduates are staying closer to home, and they want to find meaningful employment in their hometowns or a commuting distance from their hometowns. By commuting, I mean in a car, not on a plane. There has been a shift in that way that I too have seen.
I want to go back to something about the Canadian Armed Forces. In terms of labour mobility, the Canadian air force recognizes our construction, industrial and electrical program as meeting the requirements for its electrical distribution occupation. Wouldn't it be amazing if people did that occupation in the air force, but were able to log their hours, and then when they decided to come back and eventually leave the forces, they were ready to go with their journeyperson status as well? That's something I'd like to see happen. I wanted to raise that here on the off chance that this framework could help address that too.
