Evidence of meeting #29 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Raymond Guénette  Acting Chief Administrator, Office of the Chief Adminsitrator, Courts Administration Service, Federal Court of Canada
Wayne Garnons-Williams  Acting Registrar, Registry Branch, Courts Administration Service, Federal Court of Canada
John Frecker  President, Legistec Inc.
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. William Farrell
Jennifer Bird  Committee Researcher

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Thank you, Chair.

I think everybody should have a copy of the motion in front of them. I'm going to read just the “therefore be it resolved”, the main one:

Therefore, be it resolved that the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration calls on the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to immediately rescind the CIC Interim Policy and recognize legal marriages of gay and lesbian couples performed in jurisdictions outside Canada for purposes of immigration in exactly the same way as the legal marriages of heterosexual couples are recognized.

Mr. Chair, I find it passing strange that we would have a policy that doesn't recognize legally performed marriages in other jurisdictions in other countries, like the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the United States, for purposes of immigration, when we in Canada have made that change to our own laws, made that change in terms of legal recognition of gay and lesbian marriages here in Canada, and when just last week we reaffirmed that policy in the House of Commons by the vote we had. So I think it's very important that we call on the government to immediately make this change and to be very clear about that.

I think the clerk distributed the information that appears on the CIC website, and I printed it just this morning. I called that up this morning and printed it off, so you can see exactly what it does say, up to date, hot off the press this morning. If you'll look under the section on the bottom of the first page, sponsoring your same-sex partner as a spouse under the family class, and then it says “CIC's interim policy”, you turn over the page to the second page, and just under the list of various provinces there, you will see this paragraph:

If you were married outside Canada, you cannot apply to sponsor your same-sex partner as a spouse. However, if you are a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident, you may qualify to sponsor your partner as a common-law or a conjugal partner.

Mr. Chair, I think that's clearly discriminatory. It sets up married gay and lesbian partners to go through a different process, to go through a process that's made for people who aren't legally married. It's made for people in common law relationships or conjugal relationships, and I think that's clearly inappropriate. We need to have exactly the same policy for legally married spouses, whether they're heterosexual or gay or lesbian, and we need to have that kind of policy as soon as possible.

And Chair, I have just one editorial change to the “whereas” clause, the second “whereas” clause. It probably should say “Commonwealth of Massachusetts”, not “State of Massachusetts”, to be absolutely correct. If we could make that as a friendly change, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Okay, we can make that change. Commonwealth? Okay. Does everyone agree to making that change?

11:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Madame Folco and Mr. Telegdi.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC

Yes, I wish to put it on the record that I support this motion. It's one of the things that is going to.... Let me speak in French.

It is one of the outcomes which will result from the enactment of the legislation last year. Other ministers, as well, will have to go in the same direction, and decide how they will comply with the act. To my mind, this is truly a human rights issue.

And as we promulgated a law and, as Mr. Siksay very well commented, we voted once again on this legislation just the other day in the House of Commons, it is time that everything that would in any way touch the law that was passed by Parliament should be amended in order to be exactly parallel and not be in conflict with the laws of Canada.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Mr. Siksay, I noticed you had a comment directly related to Madam Folco. Maybe I'll just go to you briefly, if it's agreed, and then go to Andrew.

11:10 a.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Mr. Chair, it is something I forgot to mention in my remarks, and it is very brief. I just want to mention that I did speak directly to the minister about this on Friday, and he indicated his openness to reviewing this. I want to have on the record that the minister was open to reviewing the policy. I still think the encouragement from this committee would be a helpful thing.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

You said the minister was open to reviewing that policy. Okay.

Mr. Telegdi, please.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

On that issue, Parliament had made the decision that we would no longer discriminate between same sex and opposite sex in terms of marriage. For the department to have a policy that goes the other way is totally unacceptable. I suggest to you it is in contempt of Parliament. I very much support this motion and I hope the minister acts with dispatch to drag the department into the 21st century.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you, Mr. Telegdi.

Mr. Komarnicki.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Just to get to the point that Mr. Telegdi makes, the issue that Mr. Siksay raises was a valid issue back whenever the policy may have first been put in place, and we don't have any evidence of when that was. My understanding is it was perhaps back in 2004.

Mr. Telegdi, it was your government that hadn't done anything about the policy change. It's a direction that should come properly from the government, and you failed to do so until today's date.

Let me say this—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

I don't talk about government, Mr. Komarnicki. I talk about the department.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

This is a policy decision of the government, and your government has done nothing since 2004, despite the fact—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Please direct your comments to the chair, both members.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Province to province, there have been recognized gay and lesbian marriages on the same basis as heterosexual marriages, and they have done nothing.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

On a point of order—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Order.

It's always debate with you.

Mr. Telegdi has a point of order that he wants to raise.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

In the last committee we tried to be non-partisan in terms of around the whole issue, and my reference was to the department.

Let me tell you, Mr. Komarnicki, whether I sit on the government's side or I sit on the opposition side, I was speaking to the department.

What I am asking the government now to do is to bring them in line. You are the government. If we were the government, that would be fine, but we're not the government now. You are, so act like it.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

This is not a point of order, and I don't detect a whole lot of Christmas spirit around this table today.

We have a point of order by Mr. Karygiannis.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Call the vote, Mr. Chair. Certainly going back and forth this way is not productive. Call the vote.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Mr. Jaffer.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rahim Jaffer Conservative Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I just have a technical question when I have a chance. I don't want to debate. I just have a question for Mr. Siksay. I don't know if he is finished.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

I'm not finished yet.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

We're still in the discussion stages. We'll call the vote when it's appropriate to do so.

Mr. Komarnicki.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Right. Now let me finish.

As Mr. Telegdi indicated, it's a government—