Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 12th, 2006

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

You called it. It's not debate.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I called it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

So is that in order, Mr. Clerk?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I had always indicated an intention to make an amendment. Now surely you can't take that right away by simply calling for a vote on the motion.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

No, no. We are going to have to go by the rules. Otherwise, we're going to run out of time.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The rules suggest the amendment should be dealt with first, and then you can call the vote, but you can't call the vote and obliviate the amendment.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

It was in debate and he called the question. This is what the clerk said.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It's not that the minister cannot do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You can do that in the House but you can't do it in committee, I'm told by the clerk. You can't move the previous question.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Are we working under Robert's Rules of Order?

[The Clerk]

No, we're using the Standing Orders of the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

So where are we?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So it's which way we feel like what's good for us now. A few minutes ago you said that when we're in debate we can call the question, which was done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No, it can't be done. I'm told by the clerk that Mr. Komarnicki can move an amendment. He can put it in writing and he can put it to the committee. So I'm just wondering now, and I ask the clerk's advice on this, whether we just wait until Mr. Komarnicki has his amendment. The clerk tells me yes, that's proper to do so. Mr. Komarnicki will now read his motion and submit it to the clerk, and then we will vote on the amendment and then we will vote on the main motion.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Chair, to make my point, I'm going to make the amendment not exactly in the way I would have liked it to be, but with the view that hopefully I get the approval of the committee to an amendment.

I move that we add the following words to the motion as it now reads: “provided they are also recognized as legal marriages in Canada”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Would you please clarify that a little more, Mr. Komarnicki?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

As the motion now reads, what Mr. Siksay is calling for is that we recognize legal marriages of gay and lesbian couples performed in jurisdictions outside of Canada, and I'm saying that's fine, provided they are also recognized as legal marriages in Canada.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Doesn't he cover that in his fourth paragraph, in the last sentence, “for purposes of immigration in exactly the same way as the legal marriages of heterosexual couples are recognized”?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

But he doesn't say anything about in Canada—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If I'm reading this right, it says, the fourth paragraph:

Therefore, be it resolved that the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration calls on the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to immediately rescind the CIC Interim Policy and recognize legal marriages of gay and lesbian couples performed in jurisdictions outside Canada for purposes of immigration in exactly the same way as the legal marriages of heterosexual couples are recognized

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

He's talking about legal marriages outside the jurisdiction, but you can have a legal marriage outside—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Isn't it the same? Hold on a second here—and I really do not want to get into debate on this—we recognize heterosexual couples coming into this country. The only thing he's asking for is that homosexual couples be given the same rights. In his fourth paragraph he puts this down, so I don't see where the problem is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. Is that a valid point?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Give me a chance to think about it and I may withdraw the amendment.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So what is it exactly that you want to say?