Evidence of meeting #54 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I thought you said you were going to hear those who wanted to speak on the matter. I know that Mr. Siksay has something he wants to say--and I may.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Okay, I'll direct the clerk to hold off on doing that.
Next on our list of people is Mr. Komarnicki. Mr. Karygiannis has a comment, as well as Mr. Siksay.
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
I want to direct members of this committee that the chair has the gavel. If the chair doesn't perceive progress being made here, he can easily adjourn this meeting. I'm asking people to be patient here. Everyone will get a chance to speak on this issue.
Mr. Komarnicki, direct your comments to the chair, please.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I think it's fair. We need to allow some time to debate some issues without getting overly excited about it. We've had witnesses from various departments testify, and no one has asked that they be sworn in. I'm not sure, but there may be some basis for it. I'm sure it's a procedure that can be utilized. I would like to at least see some reasons why you would want to have department people sworn in.
I would expect them all to speak truthfully, indicate what the facts are, and what they want to testify on. We've done that routinely from time to time. Because I've seen that done routinely, it seems to me you would have to somehow establish that this is a different case from the ones we've had before, or establish some basis upon which you think it would be necessary to have people sworn in.
We have had much testimony before without swearing in, and there's been no indication why you would want to do it in this case, other than that we want to do it.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I will only point out to the parliamentary secretary and other colleagues sitting around this table that when the minister was in, along with her deputy minister, I asked how much advertising had been done. The minister did not know. She turned around and looked at the deputy minister. The deputy minister turned around and looked at somebody at the back and said they had advertised. Since then, the deputy minister has come back and said they haven't advertised.
For anything said here today, let's put it under oath. If we're going to advertise in the future, as we're told we did, or if some other questions are asked about health care and old age security, those questions should be put under oath. It's not a threat to the officials; it's just a matter of making sure that the officials.... We don't dance and we don't walk, and if you make a statement today, stick by that statement. Your deputy minister certainly made the statement and then he had to reverse it, going back 1,000 miles an hour.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
That's a bunch of bunk, Mr. Chair, absolute bunk. He did the proper thing. He said, “I'll clarify what I said to make sure it's correct.”
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
What you're suggesting, Mr. Karygiannis, is pure bunk.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Your deputy minister came to this committee and misled it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Order. We're wasting valuable time here.
I've gone around to the various members and no one has objected to the witnesses being sworn in, yet everyone's arguing about it for some reason. I want to go to Mr. Siksay first.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Point of order.
Mr. Chair, you are giving everyone the floor. When there is a problem, I suggest that the mikes be turned off. This way, no one will be able to speak or people will talk without being heard. That's all.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
If we take this action, I wonder if it needs to be done through a motion of the committee and voted on. Is there a procedural point that we need to follow more closely there, so you can just declare the request and go ahead?
It's not clear to me, after Mr. Karygiannis's recent intervention, why we would proceed this way when it hasn't been our practice in my time on this committee. At the moment I don't have any reason to doubt that the witnesses who are prepared to speak to us today are going to do anything other than answer our questions to the best of their ability. I am not convinced that this action is necessary.
I'm not prepared to take this action on the basis of the testimony of the minister or the deputy minister. They are not the individuals who are here. I'm not prepared to take that step on the basis of some perceived problem with testimony that might have been heard earlier. So at this point I remain to be convinced, but I don't support moving this way.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Okay. Instead of a motion, Mr. Siksay, perhaps you're asking for consensus among committee members.
I'll ask all those in favour of witnesses being sworn in to please raise your hands. All those who are opposed?
Four members are against it, and three members are for it.
Witnesses, would you carry on please? Were you finished with your statements?
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We were, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Okay. I have one question, before moving to Mr. Telegdi.
Did you mention how many people were involved? How many applications do you currently have before you? I remember when the minister was here, she mentioned a figure of about 400. Did you mention a figure in your opening statements?
Acting Director, Citizenship and Immigration Program Delivery, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, Mr. Chair, I mentioned that we have approximately 400 cases of active files on hand that we're looking at right now.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
I'm curious as to the numbers we've been hearing about. We've been hearing from some people that it's in the thousands. Obviously those numbers are wrong, and it's roughly about 400.
Thank you.
Mr. Telegdi.