Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 29th, 2007

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Minister, what do you say to families who have been waiting in a huge backlog of family class applications? It appears there are now fewer possibilities for processing those applications because there's this new class of applicants who are being given priority. There's a lot of people who are extremely frustrated that their family members haven't been able to join them in Canada.

We know that family reunification has been a very successful aspect of our immigration program. What do you say to those folks who see the potential spots being directed into another stream and away from the family reunification stream essentially?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I sympathize with their frustration and I'd like to be able to get them here faster. That's why we review the number each year. As you pointed out, that 265,000 is much higher than it was in the past. That's why we review that number every year and raise it appropriately. New slots are being created so that we don't disadvantage others.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Siksay.

Thank you, Madam Minister.

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Is it seven or five minutes, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It's a seven-minute round.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Excellent.

If I have a few extra minutes, then I'm going to go back to another round on the issue of lost Canadians. I'll spend my first few minutes dealing with that subject, Minister.

We discussed how important this issue is to the government and to you. It's an issue that really tugs on one's heartstrings. We heard some very emotional stories this morning. These are individuals who thought they were Canadians and who have lived in this country their entire life in many cases, only to find out they are not Canadian citizens.

I know when you took over this portfolio that you took a number of significant steps to deal with this issue. I wonder if you could elaborate on that. It's not just a matter of having a 1-800 number. When there's a question of loss of citizenship, I know there's a program officer who is being assigned to each case. I wonder if you could give the committee a few examples of some of the concrete steps that you've taken to address this very serious issue of lost Canadians.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

The issue of lost Canadians is a very important one. Some people dismiss it because they say it doesn't affect many, but those it does affect are profoundly affected. So that's why we took action very quickly to set up the hotline when I came into this position. We have people at the call centre who are dedicated to helping these people. We've set up special procedures to expedite how cases are assessed, how their status is determined.

You're right. We've got special case workers assigned to each case. We've notified the individuals who've been affected by the Taylor decision. We've made sure we contacted the ones who have been put on hold, so they aren't left in limbo. They would at least know why their situation wasn't being dealt with. We've addressed the provinces and territories and asked them to work with us to ensure that social benefits are not disrupted while these cases are under review. We've made special arrangements for individuals who are in this situation while their status is being determined. We've made special arrangements if they've needed to go out of the country on an emergency trip of some form or another. We've worked with our friends at the Canada Border Services Agency and the Department of Foreign Affairs on these various issues.

That hasn't stopped. There is special information on our website, and we are now running paid advertisements. I have samples I can pass around. These are current newspapers. We're trying to reach out to people to tell them that if they're in these circumstances to contact us because we want to help. I have stood up in the House of Commons numerous times and encouraged MPs, if they are aware of cases or potential cases, to bring them forward to my office. We'd be more than happy to deal with them in an expedited fashion.

So we started right away, and I think part of the measure of the success of our initiatives is the fact that for years the active files number, if you like, was around 450 and now we've got that down to 285, 250 of which are attributable to the Taylor case.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate your extensive answer.

I want to turn to the issue raised by Mr. Alghabra regarding foreign credentials. This is an important issue as well. Congratulations on the announcement of the Foreign Credentials Referral Office.

I've done a little bit of homework on this issue because I think it's important, particularly for the Liberal members opposite, to hear a little bit of the history of this issue. At the end of this comment, I'm going to ask you how you were able to get the job done.

As you're aware, this is an important issue for Canadians, especially to immigrant families who have settled in this country. This issue, though, has been a pressing topic for some time and the previous Liberal government had been promising to deal with it for years. In 2002, before my tenure in the House of Commons, over five years ago the then Liberal minister of state Jean Augustine said, and I quote, “The recognition of foreign credentials is a government priority.” However, in five years the Liberals didn't get it done.

In the Speech from the Throne that same year, the Liberals promised, and I quote:

The government will work with its partners to break down the barriers to the recognition of foreign credentials and will fast-track skilled workers entering Canada with jobs already waiting for them.

Again, of course, the Liberals didn't get it done.

It's interesting to note, Minister, that Liberals made yet another unfulfilled promise in their 2004 Speech from the Throne. Let me read from this document:

The government will do its part to ensure speedier recognition of foreign credentials and prior work experience. It will also implement measures to inform prospective immigrants and encourage the acquisition of necessary credentials before they arrive in Canada.

And of course they didn't get it done then either.

Amazingly, Minister, the previous Liberal government even admitted its own failures on the recognition of foreign credentials in the Speech from the Throne to open the 38th Parliament. That's when I joined this illustrious House. In the 38th Parliament they said, and I quote:

Efforts to improve the recognition of foreign credentials and prior work experience have yielded too little progress. Looking to the growing contribution that will be required from new Canadians as our population ages, this government

—the then Liberal government—

will redouble its efforts, in cooperation with the provinces and professional bodies, to help integrate them into the workforce.

Though the Liberal government admitted its failure and promised to redouble its efforts, it still didn't get it done. So, as I promised, Minister, please can you tell us, with all this Liberal inaction—I've just given a history from 2002 forward—how were you able to make some progress on this very important issue and get things done for Canadians?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I thank you very much for the question.

We did say that we want to help newcomers to Canada get to work in their chosen fields, the jobs they were trained to do. We don't want to see the qualified doctors driving taxi cabs, not when we have a shortage of doctors. And it's not just doctors. It's medical technicians, it's welders, it's a wide range of skilled and unskilled labour, frankly, unregulated labour--people in the tourism industry, for example. We need to be putting those skills and talents to use, but for years now, there has been no coordinated effort. The horror stories that I've heard firsthand from newcomers to Canada, that it took them up to six years to find out where to get their credentials assessed--that's ridiculous.

So we took action—this is phase one—to help them get their credentials assessed even before they get here. A lot of Canadian universities and colleges have partnerships or satellites right around the world. So for many people who want to come to Canada, they can now, through the FCRO, get their credentials assessed by the appropriate body. They can then, while they're still waiting to come to Canada, work on getting their skills upgraded through recognized institutions, institutions whose courses and credits will be recognized here in Canada. They can also work on their English language skills before they get here. So instead of waiting for two to five years after they get here to get to work in their field, while their families are dependent on them, they can shorten that process up very significantly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Minister.

That completes our seven-minute rounds. Now we'll go to five-minute rounds.

Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and your associates, for coming here.

I would like to set the record straight first, as the Conservative member was saying that the Liberals have done nothing. In fact, in 2005 the Liberals committed $263 million for the internationally trained workers initiative: $68 million, foreign credentials; $75 million, foreign-trained nurses and doctors; $20 million, language training; $100 million going to “Canada Portal”.

In fact, Minister, in the last two years I had the opportunity to go to the businesses. The issue of foreign-trained workers is not an issue of immigrants. It is becoming an issue of our businesses across Canada. Your department and your party long ago knew that a centralized agency was unworkable. You have seen many witnesses coming to this committee and telling the committee members again and again that such an agency will not work in this situation. Can you honestly tell me that your party did not know that this agency will not work?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I certainly couldn't speak on behalf of any other individuals. I can tell you myself that I, along with my colleague who is now the Minister of HRSD, consulted with people, we listened to them, we took action on this. I will agree with you on one thing, that this isn't just a problem of immigrants. It's a problem of business, and it's a problem for those who are already here in this country, whether they're Canadians or whether they're newcomers, getting credentials recognized across this country. People don't know how to do it.

This is a tool. The FCRO, particularly the “Working in Canada” tool, is going to help an awful lot of people and it's going to enhance our mobility. Now we have to go to the next steps, no question. But I think this is a really good phase one. It's going to materially help a lot of people, and I think that's worthwhile.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Minister, to follow up, the new office that you're bringing in, that's going to do the same job, referring those individuals to the provincial jurisdiction, those are the ones who assess the credentials and recognize the degrees. In fact, this problem is still going to be ongoing for a long time. I don't think this is a practical solution, because I went through this. I know Mr. Alghabra went through this, and many other Canadians went through these problems.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I'm not sure quite what the question is. But what I can tell you is that we were very careful, because of our consultations, not to tread into provincial jurisdiction or tread on their toes. We are working with them. I met with my provincial counterparts just last week, and they were very pleased with the announcement. They're excited because what we are doing complements what they do.

Now, each of the provinces has its own interests, because immigration is a shared jurisdiction. Each has its own interests. They don't all have the same resources, of course, but “Working in Canada” is a nationwide document. It draws on information that is available at the federal level, and it provides a road map for people wherever they want to go, in whatever field. So anyone can look at, from one site, the national context, and even look for jobs. Employers also can access this to help them find the skilled workers they need.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

That's just duplicating the work Liberals did. We put Canada Portal on this and it was doing the same job.

I'm going to divert my question to another issue now. Can you tell me how much of the total citizenship and immigration funding is going to be used or has been used for processing ministerial permits?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We don't have that information, for the simple reason that it's part of regular administrative duties that are exercised by a number of people, and it's only one part of what they do. We don't have people who clock what they do every minute of the day. It's not something we track. I'm sorry.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

There is something for the temporary resident program, but I don't see that particular thing.

Can you provide us with a breakdown of ministerial permits across this country so we can verify this cost and get a better sense of how this minister has politicized the humanitarian and compassionate consideration process as a partisan process?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I'm sorry, are you looking for ministerial permits in total?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Yes. I'd like you to give me a breakdown of ministerial permits across the country so we can see how many permits are used as politicization for the party's purpose. When I look at this situation--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

Mr. Dhaliwal didn't interrupt other members when they were speaking. I would ask you to give him the same courtesy.

He's out of time, but I'm going to give him another minute.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When I look at this situation, there are a lot more residents—The Conservatives hold only 125 ridings, but in the other ridings I have seen day after day that there are parents who are dying or have died, and their loved ones are not allowed to come here to attend their funerals. Fathers and mothers are not allowed to come to attend the weddings of their children. There has been so much politicization, especially during your tenure as minister. If you can give me the breakdown we can figure out how much it has been politicized by party and region.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

The vast majority of ministerial permits are granted in my name but not by me personally. They're granted abroad by staff, by departmental officials.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Madame Faille is next, for five minutes.