Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 29th, 2007

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have quite a number of questions. I would like to remind the committee that the Bloc Québécois has made numerous submissions to successive governments since 2004 concerning recognition of foreign credentials. I am very pleased to officially learn that the Conservative government has backpedalled on the announcement made by Mr. Solberg about duplicating the efforts of the Government of Quebec.

I have also held consultations in Quebec. The people and organizations are happy with the initiative you are taking at present. On the other hand, there is still a question: when are you going to transfer the funds so that they can pursue their initiatives, prepare their action plan and move ahead on this subject? Quebec started well before some provinces and it is on the right track.

Premier Charest announced measures in March—I do not remember the exact date—to make it easier for immigrants to enter the labour market. We are still waiting for the funds that were previously announced by the Liberal government. The announcement was for $68 million and the organizations were not informed that this money would not be renewed. So we are still waiting for our share. That is my question about recognition of foreign credentials.

The Auditor General's report that was tabled in May told us that the government had no strategic plan for human resources outside Canada. We learned from the newspapers that there were rumours of embassy and consulate closings in some regions of the country. We also learned that the government was targeting some continents more than others in terms of attracting permanent residents. Does Citizenship and Immigration have a plan in that regard? Do this Department's offices abroad have the same human resources problem as the Department of Foreign Affairs?

This brings me to a question about Quebec. What resources are you allocating for processing Quebec's cases? This is an area that is under shared jurisdiction. What measures are being taken to honour and to move toward the 25% to which we are entitled?

I have another question on the same subject. How does the Department determine the unit costs of the various immigration services? How do you determine the cost of a temporary visa, a student visa, a work permit, or a permanent resident visa? You may not have figures at present, but you could provide them to the committee later.

I am concerned about the size of the backlog. What are you doing to transfer the large amounts we charge immigrants? Where do those funds go at the end of the year? Are you charging more money to provide the services than what they cost you?

I have one last question that relates to the overall case management system. If you do not have time to answer, you can do it in writing. Through an access to information request, I have received a report setting out the architecture of the system. Of the reports found in that architecture, which ones are currently available? Is the Department experiencing a delay in delivering the system?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We'll try to answer as many of those as possible.

You were asking about the specific programs related to foreign credentials and money going to groups—something we call the foreign credentials program. A lot of that money is under the FRCP. That's within the jurisdiction of Human Resources and Social Development Canada, so I'd ask that you refer your question to them.

However, I should point out that under the Canada-Quebec accord, Quebec administers a lot of programs. They keep trying to administer more. Under that in the main estimates we'll be providing them with $224.4 million this year. As you're probably aware, there's a formula that determines that number. It's not subjective; it's objectively determined.

As far as how we calculate service charges, I'd love to help you out, but as you may or may not be aware, that issue is before the courts right now, so it would be inappropriate for me to comment on it.

On the management of our human resources abroad, I'll let the deputy respond to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have about three more people to get in here and we've gone over by a minute, but I will allow a brief response, Mr. Fadden.

[Richard Fadden]

Because we are a tenant of the Department of Foreign Affairs outside Canada, we have to live with its decisions. We have had consultations with representatives of that department in recent years and they have decided to close several small missions in Africa because there was no business. We then entered into agreements with the private sector to transfer the files. Those closings will therefore not have a big impact on our activities.

The only embassy or consulate closing that is causing a little difficulty is the one in St. Petersburg, whose responsibilities have been transferred to Moscow. We believe we will be able to offer our services to Russia.

I do not know whether I understood the first part of your question correctly, the one about the case management system. The project has been delayed a little. It is a very complicated system. We decided to suspend it to do a kind of health check and make sure that we were going in the right direction. We will give you more information in writing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

I'm going to reduce it now to about four minutes a person so we can get the last of the questioners in.

Mr. Preston.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. I'll be as brief as I can so the minister can spend time with her answer.

In the original part of the meeting we talked a lot about the lost Canadians and what you're doing on that file. In your original notes you also spoke at some length about different things that are happening as far as the estimates go. I'd like to give you a chance to discuss them further, or other great things your department is doing.

You mentioned in your speech some $135 million in immigration settlement programs. That is new to us. I'm sure there must be more that your department is doing that's been great for Canadians. Why don't you share some of that with us?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you for the question, and I do appreciate you standing in today.

We've actually achieved quite a lot. The previous government introduced a tax, if you like, of almost $1,000 per newcomer to Canada. We cut that in half. This is money that's used to help newcomers integrate into Canadian society. Whereas those levels had been frozen for almost a decade, we added $307 million of new money. That's good news.

We've made it possible for the first time for university students to work off campus for up to 20 hours a week. Prior to that they could work on campus, but we want to help them get involved in their communities, expand their work experience, and make them more valuable employees in the future.

We've also made it possible for temporary foreign workers and for the self-same university students with experience to apply under certain conditions to stay in Canada, apply for their permanent residence from within Canada. No longer will they have to leave and make application and then come back.

As well, we've improved and streamlined the temporary foreign worker program, making it more responsive by opening up special offices in the west to help employers. We've worked with the provinces, with B.C., Alberta, and Ontario, and we're in the process with others, on making lists of occupations under pressure. These are occupations where we know there's a shortage of workers. So when employers come looking for a labour market opinion and ask can they bring someone in, and we're saying no, you can skip that step and go find your people and bring them over. We're accelerating the responsiveness to the labour market needs.

So we've done a lot of things. We've also brought in Bill C-14to help adoption and to help adopted children become Canadian citizens more readily. We've introduced Bill C-57, which is to help protect and keep newcomers to Canada from becoming sexually exploited or abused or subject to human trafficking, and then today I just announced that we want to bring forth further legislation, amendments to the Citizenship Act, to help.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

I hate to interrupt the minister, but we have to move on.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I'm sure we could go on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Telegdi, three and half minutes as well, please.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Let me just say to Mr. Batters, we certainly don't need a history lesson from somebody who has been to three meetings. Many of us have been here for many meetings. Many Conservative members had great experience. The fact of the matter is, what the Conservative government said while they were in opposition they totally contradicted when they came into government.

Minister, countries are opening up their citizenship. You only have to look to the European Union; you only have to look to what Australia has done. It seems to me we're closing up shop in Canada. We had one gentleman, Senator Roméo Dallaire, who referred to the bureaucratic terrorists in the system when he was asked what the problem is with lost Canadians. That is the best description I have heard in all my years on Parliament Hill when I was frustrated by the bureaucracy.

Minister, of the five members on the committee, only one has had previous experience and only one has a significant population of immigrants in their riding. You and your predecessor fall into the same category. And this is the Conservative Party that was supposed to be sensitive to new Canadians.

Minister, knowledgeable people dealt with the policy on revocation. A former critic who was the most knowledgeable person in your department put it very correctly in her statements when she was here, and she was a lawyer.

There isn't anybody on Parliament Hill who likes war criminals or wants war criminals in Canada. That's not what this issue is about.

Minister, if you believe you are dealing with war criminals, I issue you a challenge in front of the media to go outside this room and name two war criminals you took citizenship away from. If you and your deputy minister go out there and make that statement, name names, I dare say you'll be in court so quickly your head will spin.

You did one thing that's somewhat of an improvement, and that is you now have finally conceded that you're going to try to do a new citizenship act. I will assist you and I think all the members of the committee will assist you. I also ask you to call on the Conservative members who have had experience on this committee, who have heard the witnesses, who have made the cross-Canada trips listening to witnesses. I think that is very, very important.

Minister, there's a gentleman by the name of Charles Bosdet who offered to assist in the drafting of a new citizenship act. He is very, very knowledgeable, and I certainly hope you take advantage of that.

I would like you to provide this information to me, because you have a lot of leaks in your department. To their credit, a lot of civil servants are unhappy with how that department is run. One of the things I found out is that you cancelled $4.9 million within the department to celebrate citizenship. I want to get that report in front of the committee.

The other one is that when CBC Radio was doing its due diligence in terms of—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The member has 30 seconds, if he's interested. And the minister responding—

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

No, no. She can answer—No, no, Mr. Chairman. You allowed seven and a half minutes previously.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thirty seconds more, Mr. Telegdi, and then I'm moving to another member.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

What I want to get from her is that you guys went after CBC Radio because you said they overstated the cases of the lost Canadians. I understand an ombudsman's report was put out by CBC. This committee would like to have that report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please. Order.

I have two more people and I want to try to get them in.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is a real live example of what's happened on the committee. When the minister wants to be constructive and wants to hear suggestions on how we can improve the system, we get very partisan and refer to those who are carrying out the laws and regulations as bureaucratic terrorists. In light of what's happening in the world today I think it's shameful, it's disrespectful, and it's totally out of order. Someone who has been around for that long in Parliament should know better and doesn't. It's unfortunate that's the case.

For the 13 years that the honourable member has been involved in the government that's been here, this problem has existed. They have done nothing about the problem. They absolutely have not addressed it, and he's had ample time to do it.

In the short time that the minister has been here, they have not only addressed the issue but have also taken it.... And any comments that are attributed to anyone in the department in the light of bureaucratic terrorists is simply unacceptable. It's untrue, it's unnecessary, and it's totally unfounded. I think the member should take that back and apologize. If he is an honourable member, he should do that.

Having said that, I can say this: The previous government had, for 10 or 11 years, basically frozen funding when it dealt with immigration issues and settlement issues, while this government has put $307 million, as the minister has indicated, and $13 million for the foreign credential recognition office and another $51 million for temporary foreign workers.

When we look at the estimates that we're looking at today, the dollars have been increased in every category in the immigration program--the host program, the immigrant settlement and adaptation program, and the resettlement assistance program. I think progress is being made. If this particular member wishes to be less than helpful, that's fair enough, but let's let the facts speak for themselves.

I want to direct the minister to a specific question. I know the Vietnamese community was here before this committee. They presented a very passionate and compassionate case for themselves. The previous government didn't do anything for the 100-some of them who were left stranded in the Philippines. The government didn't get the job done, as we talked about today.

They have made a very passionate case. Are you, Madam Minister, prepared to take those cases into consideration and indeed see if we can help them find their way through?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Go ahead, Madam Minister.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Following the fall of Saigon in 1975, thousands of Vietnamese fled their homes and ended up in the Philippines. Over the years, many countries have taken them in; unfortunately, there are still some 150-odd who are still in the Philippines without status.

I was pleased to advise their representatives here just a couple of weeks ago that Canada will be processing their applications to come to Canada on humanitarian and compassionate grounds. We're expediting that process. Naturally they'll have to meet security and criminality standards, because our first duty is to protect those who are already here, but I was pleased to advise them that we will be treating them on an exceptional basis in both the family class and the skilled workers class. We hope to have all of these applications resolved by the end of this calendar year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Karygiannis is next. You have three and a half minutes.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, people who have lost their citizenship are applying for citizenship right now. Some of them have to go through RCMP clearance. Are you aware of this?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

When someone applies for citizenship, we would normally have to clear them for security, safety, and health.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, have you made any special arrangements with the minister responsible for the RCMP and CSIS to expedite these cases—yes or no?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Are you talking in general or are you talking of lost Canadians?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I mean lost Canadians. Have you made--