Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 11th, 2008

[Pierre Allard]

Maybe the honourable Mr. Karygiannis is quite correct, that being able to embrace his grandchildren as Canadians is an important factor. And if we're only talking about 10,000 people—and I can't really say what the number is, because I can't twist them that fast in my mind—then maybe that's the simple solution.

[Erl Kish]

We'd have no problem with that whatsoever. I could have the same problem with my grandchildren, because I had two children born abroad in 1958 and 1959.

The worry is to get this through and to get it passed. If it takes the amendment, and the other ones will go along with the amendment, we'd be fully in agreement. It's not a problem.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you very much for taking the time to come here. Let's work together and get this bill done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the Legion members for coming. Mr. Kish and Mr. Allard, we certainly appreciate what you're saying.

I can tell you that last week when we left off we said that if we had all-party agreement to pass Bill C-37 without any amendments we would do everything within our power to bring it before this committee. As I understand it, we had agreement by at least a majority of the parties here.

I can also tell you--and I'm somewhat surprised by our member for the New Democratic Party, Olivia Chow--that the recommendation that went to the minister under the report specifically concluded that the extension would stop after the first generation born abroad, and there would be options for those beyond that. It was a policy decision. A unanimous report by every member of this committee, upon which the legislation was drafted, went to the minister. I appreciate that you can do anything you want, but the bill as prepared is limited to the first generation born abroad. On that basis, the bill was brought here, with our effort, to get speedy passage. To open it up again would certainly not be an option at this time.

On the two things that matter to the Legion--the DND 419 and births registered abroad--we'll certainly direct questions to the ministerial people. But the big question has been the second generation born abroad. As I said, there has been a decision that they must have some connection to Canada, or they must use some other means if you want to incorporate those.

The numbers that Mr. Karygiannis has been espousing are not that large. There are some assumptions he's making on those, and they're not something you can easily record. Although we know they're there, we also know there's a way of dealing with a good number of them.

Given the present state of the House, do we want a bill that's maybe not perfect but goes perhaps 95% toward what everybody wants? Would you agree with the passage of the bill as is in order to accomplish that in an expedited fashion, as opposed to yet another wrangling that didn't exist before?

[Erl Kish]

We totally agree with the bill as is, and we did when we looked at it. We see no problem with it.

What we're worried about is another slowdown. As the honourable member Olivia Chow has mentioned, before we hit something like a looming election that throws this into next year or the year after, let's get it done. Let's work together and get this bill passed, whether it's first generation or second. Let's just get it done.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

We did everything in our power since last Wednesday to get the bill before the committee today. That has happened, which in itself is somewhat miraculous.

I also put to each of the members that we go forward, do clause-by-clause today, and report the bill as is to the House today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

On a point of order, we have Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I could be out of order, but I think the clerk has a list of witnesses who need to come forward to speak. Until we hear all those witnesses, the parliamentary secretary should realize we're not doing due diligence to this legislation.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

On the point of order, as Ms. Chow has indicated, this matter has been dealt with time and time again--many reports, many studies, and many witnesses. It's time to either get on or get off, move forward or not. I challenge the members to do the right thing.

With the time I have, I think Mr. Batters has a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out that committee business is also on the agenda. We can deal with Mr. Komarnicki's motion with respect to clause-by-clause consideration. However, we should finish our session with the witnesses first, because that is on the agenda. We should not be debating these issues in front of them. I think they deserve better than that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Are you speaking to this, Mr. Batters?

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I'm going to speak on this round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Is it a point of order?

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

It's not a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay.

The point of order is that we should hear from the witnesses before we--

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I haven't put a motion on the floor, so I'm not sure what the point of order is. There's no motion. It's a question and comment, and I'm making a comment. There is no motion on the floor to deal with, so that time should--

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It's politicking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We'll move on, because I don't think we have a point of order there. We have a difference of opinion between two honourable gentlemen. I think I will go to--

Are you finished, Mr. Komarnicki?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Right, and I'm sharing the rest of my time with Mr. Batters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, first of all, I think I can speak for everyone in this room and everyone in this country when I say thank you very much for your sacrifices and for your service to this country. You're to be commended, as are all members of the Legion.

When you came here today, your remarks were dead-on; they were very specific. You'd like to see this bill passed as is, unamended, because you believe in this bill. Certain realities are upon us, gentlemen, whether certain people in this room like that or not. I started out in the last committee commending every member of this committee for working so hard and caring so much on this issue.

Mr. Karygiannis would like one further change, but the reality is that politically this government and this Parliament could very well fall at the end of February, and there is simply not enough time to have an amendment and go back through the wheels of government and through cabinet and back to this committee for it to pass. This is the opinion of the people above my pay scale, gentlemen. You, being in the military, can understand this. This is how it's been communicated to me: there's simply not the time for any amendments to be made to this bill. If an election is called before this bill is passed as is, which is the only option before us....

There are two options: we pass it as is, or it dies when an election comes and all this work goes out the window and we start all over again. Those are the only realistic choices before this committee. As much as my friend Mr. Karygiannis, and perhaps--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I believe my colleague is singling me out as to my concerns. He keeps repeating my name, so I would ask you to ask him to speak more in general versus singling me out.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I will do that, as much as--