Evidence of meeting #11 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-37.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Erl Kish  Dominion Vice-President, Royal Canadian Legion
Pierre Allard  Service Bureau Director, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Chaplin
Mark Davidson  Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

I guess that just proves my point, Mr. Chair, that what started as a non-partisan exercise is rapidly deteriorating here into asking who dragged whom along, and who led the process first.

I will give these gentlemen their due for caring so much about this issue and working so hard on it, but the main issue here--for everyone in this room, for the press that's covering this, for Canadians who will read this in the transcripts--is that we had our kick at the can in a unanimous report. Whatever ideas could have been put forward to better this bill were all considered, or should have all been considered, then.

Once this committee delivered what was a unanimous report...and Mr. Telegdi was here. He went along with it. It was a unanimous report. This gentleman, who spent a lot of work on this file, much more work than I have, agreed to this unanimous report.

After that, gentlemen, because of our time constraints now in this Parliament, the horse had left the barn. Our government then delivered a bill that is exactly a reflection of that unanimous report. And I don't know what else can be expected of a government than to deliver what is in a unanimous report, agreed to by all parties.

Gentlemen, whatever amendments could have been made are already out the window. The horse has already left the barn. We have the bill before us. Now we either pass it as is or it will not happen in this Parliament, and all this work will be for naught.

I know there are people who will shed tears over that. There are people who have worked so hard over this, and there continue to be people, as we heard last meeting, who pass away while waiting for this to be rectified, and they continue to pass away. There will be a lot of tears shed over this if it's not done.

I agree with Ms. Chow. What a wonderful Valentine's Day present to war brides to have this passed. But it must be passed unamended to get this done before this Parliament ends. We can talk about pie in the sky, we can talk about eight, ten, twelve different amendments that might make this bill better, but that horse has already left the barn, gentlemen.

Thank you.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

On a point of order, Mr. Carrier.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC

Mr. Chairman, we should limit ourselves to questioning the witnesses who have come to meet with us. Later on, we, as Committee members, can discuss what the process should be for passing the bill. If people have questions for our witnesses, they should ask them now, but if there are no further questions, let's have that discussion on our own subsequently. Discussing these issues in front of the witnesses is embarrassing.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Actually, there's no point of order there. If a member is allotted five minutes, he can use his time to make a statement. He doesn't need to leave time for answers.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

So it's not a point of order.

How much time do we have left for this panel, Mr. Clerk?

4:25 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Andrew Chaplin

Two and a half minutes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

All right. Do we wish to start another round, or will we dismiss our witnesses?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Another round, Mr. Chair.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Another round?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Sure.

4:25 p.m.

An hon. member

Jimmy, Jimmy, let's go to the officials.

4:25 p.m.

An hon. member

Come on.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Okay. Is it agreed that we let our witnesses go and bring all the officials to the table?

4:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Okay.

On behalf of the committee, I want to say thank you to the Canadian Legion for all the information you've provided. It's been a very worthwhile session. Thank you.

We'll call our departmental officials to the table.

Members, we'll suspend while the officials are given a chance to set up. Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Order, please.

We will resume our consideration of Bill C-37. We will go to our departmental officials here today.

Thank you for coming: Mr. Mark Davidson, director of the legislation and program policy division of citizenship branch; Ms. Ann Heathcote, senior policy adviser; and Lori Beckerman, acting team leader, senior counsel.

Welcome.

I think you know the procedure, Mr. Davidson, and I think you have a statement that you want to make.

February 11th, 2008 / 4:30 p.m.

Mark Davidson Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and honourable members. I do have an opening statement.

My name is Mark Davidson and I work in the Citizenship Branch at Citizenship and Immigration Canada. I am accompanied by Ann Heathcote and Lori Beckerman, and together, we will be able to answer your questions.

I am here today to address Bill C-37, An Act to amend the Citizenship Act. Because of the demonstrated need for stability, simplicity, and consistency in citizenship status, what follows is the basic outline of the proposals CIC considered when drafting Bill C-37, which was tabled by Minister Finley on December 10.

First, nothing in these proposals will take away citizenship from anyone who is now a citizen of Canada. Those who are Canadian citizens when the amendments come into force will remain Canadian citizens.

Second, anyone who became a citizen under the Canadian Citizenship Act of 1947, and subsequently lost his or her citizenship, will have it restored.

Third, anyone who was born in Canada on or after January 1, 1947, and who subsequently lost his or her citizenship will have it restored.

Fourth, anyone naturalized as a citizen of Canada on or after January 1, 1947, who subsequently lost his or her citizenship, will have it restored.

Finally, those born abroad to a Canadian citizen on or after January 1, 1947, who are not already citizens will now be Canadian citizens if they are the first generation born abroad.

The only exceptions would be those who, as adults, have personally renounced their citizenship to the Government of Canada, or those whose citizenship was revoked by the government because it was obtained by fraud.

These proposed amendments would give Canadian citizenship to various categories of individuals. They might have lost their citizenship by becoming citizens of another country, either as adults or as minors. They might have lost citizenship when they took an oath of citizenship in another country, which included a clause that renounced Canadian citizenship. They might have been born abroad and lost their Canadian citizenship under the 1947 act because they failed to take the required steps before their 24th birthday to retain it. So-called border babies, or indeed those DND babies who were born abroad under the 1947 Citizenship Act, also had to take steps to register as Canadian citizens. If they failed to do so, they never became Canadian citizens.

Bill C37 will address past problems and protect citizenship for the future by limiting citizenship by descent to the first generation born abroad. Subsequent generations born abroad would no longer be given Canadian citizenship automatically.

Bill C-37 would also eliminate onerous and confusing retention requirements and confer citizenship by force of law, otherwise known as automatically. There is no application process and no deadline for people to come forward to apply for proof of citizenship or a passport.

Those who are interested in their Canadian citizenship and do not have proof of it can contact our department. We will deal with them as they come forward.

Those rare cases that concern people born outside of Canada prior to January 1, 1947, would not be affected by this legislation. That is to say, their status would not be changed by Bill C-37. The proposal respects the significance of the year 1947, because Canadian citizenship, as we now know it, did not exist before January 1, 1947.

As warranted, the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration will still have the authority, with the approval of the Governor in Council, to grant citizenship under subsection 5(4) of the Citizenship Act in special cases. This would also be the case for unforeseen circumstances that CIC has not yet dealt with.

We believe that Bill C-37 will resolve the issue of citizenship for most of those people whose status is currently in question.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before moving to questions, I'd like to highlight for members the binder we made available to them today. The binder includes a number of documents. There is the bill itself; an overview of the bill; a detailed summary clause by clause, which can be found at tab 3 of the binder; and a key highlights document at tab 4. Tab 5 includes the communication products that were released at the time the bill was tabled on December 10, which includes both the news release and two backgrounders.

I'll highlight that the backgrounder that is found at tab 5(c) is a list of fictional cases or examples of cases and a description of how these would be dealt with by the bill.

As well, there's a deck at tab 6, which provides an overview of Bill C-37, and then eight issue papers that we've prepared, which go into more detail talking about the issues of the 1947 limit, citizenship by descent, the statelessness provisions, the simplified citizenship rules, prohibitions, family class immigration, and the exception for Canadians serving abroad, and finally an issue paper dealing with retroactive citizenship.

With that, Mr. Chair, we're quite happy to answer questions.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you, Mr. Davidson.

I'll go to Mr. Telegdi for a seven-minute round.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I note that we have made some progress over the years. No longer are we having the minister tell us that they will handle everything by subsection 5(4). We're talking about having some legislation.

Mr. Davidson, à propos the “fictional cases” you were talking about, you probably have heard the submission of the Canadian Council for Refugees, have you? What is your comment on the fictional case that relates to the person she outlines?

4:35 p.m.

Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Mark Davidson

Is this the case that you read out before, Mr. Telegdi?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Yes.

4:35 p.m.

Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Mark Davidson

I don't have it right in front of me.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

As you heard that situation, was it correct, the way she outlined it?

4:35 p.m.

Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Mark Davidson

The first point I'd like to make is that there are a number of mechanisms that individuals born outside of Canada in the second generation would be able to use to obtain their citizenship—primarily the expedited family class process that's available for all individuals.

The Canadian Council for Refugees have made a point that these individuals would not have access to national passports if they're stateless. That's true; however, they would have access to other forms of travel documents that are recognized for travel to Canada. There are other forms of travel—