Evidence of meeting #11 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-37.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
If you asked if this is a certain percentage of the total population, my answer would be that I don't know.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Davidson, you supplied us the figures. I've put them in the context of a decade. I've come up with a median of 7,000 from 1982 to 1989, 10,000 in 1990, then 26,751 from 2000 to 2007. These are derived by using your numbers. Then there's the graph at the bottom that gives figures for the 1980s, the 1990s, 2000, and 2010. That graph points to over 50,000 children per year born abroad to Canadian citizens between 2010 and 2020. By extrapolating from your numbers, we will have close to 500,000 born abroad between 2010 and 2020. To judge by the number of people born between 1982 and 2007, by the year 2020 we could be looking at a million Canadians born abroad.
Do you have any other projections you might want to share with us?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
To start with, as is explained here, there will almost certainly be duplications in these numbers. Individuals can apply more than once for a certificate.
5:05 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I don't know. They may have lost the certificate. As I understand these numbers, they are not necessarily births in this particular year. The graph might go in a slightly different direction. Certainly, looking at the numbers, it is true that there appear to have been more certificates issued in 2007 than in 1982.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Davidson, from the numbers you're providing, after 2000 nothing except one year has hit below 20,000--nothing.
5:05 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
What I am explaining to you, sir, is that this does not necessarily relate to births in that year. Those 20,000 could include births in 1980.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
What do you think the discrepancy is, plus or give, 5%?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I wouldn't categorize it as a discrepancy. I would categorize it as a fact. These are not births—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
So what you're telling me is that the numbers you supplied to us, sir, are not accurate.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
I am just wondering if Mr. Karygiannis could sometimes wait until Mr. Davidson is finished his response. Mr. Davidson is often in the middle of his response and Mr. Karygiannis breaks in with his monologue. If there's a question, I'd like hear the answer. I'm waiting to hear Mr. Davidson's response.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
It's a good point that you're making, Mr. Batters. However, it is not a point of order. I would ask Mr. Karygiannis to give Mr. Davidson time to speak.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Chair, I want to thank you and our colleague. However, we all have different styles of asking questions.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
It's not a point of order.
Mr. Davidson, the numbers you're giving us, sir, were specifically asked for people in those years. Are you trying to tell me today that these numbers are not what was asked for?
5:10 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I'm trying to explain to you, sir, that the year here is the year the certificate was issued. There is nothing in the text that indicates the births took place in that year. So if I could finish—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
In my original question, you were asked for the year of birth. You haven't answered it.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I am looking at the response that was given. When I look at the issue, if you look at the first page, it says, “That the Committee send for a report from the department detailing statistics related to the registration of Canadians born abroad and to the registration of births of second-generation Canadians abroad since 1977.”
In attempting to respond to that, sir, what we have done is give you some pieces of data that may or may not relate to what you were looking for but that relate to what we can give you. What I'm saying to you is that those 2000, 2005, and 2007 figures do not necessarily relate to births in those years; in fact, I would be surprised. So your extrapolation may not be accurate.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I wouldn't categorize that.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
I would like to continue the same line of questioning as my colleague as regards the important recommendations set out in the unanimous report. I believe we were at recommendation 11, which relates to the infamous DND 419 form, asking your Department to reassess whether there is any pressing and substantial reason for continuing not to recognize it as proof of Canadian citizenship.
Have you given that any thought? What is your position on that document?
5:10 p.m.
Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
The DND 419 is a document that DND never intended to be used as a proof of citizenship. They only issued it for a limited period of time. They only used that document between 1963 and 1979. It doesn't cover the whole period of the 1947 act.
The provision in Bill C-37, in proposed paragraph 3(1)(g), is intended to resolve the problem of the 419 and the confusion that had arisen as a result. If Bill C-37 is passed, the distinction between a 419 and a registration of birth abroad will be eliminated.