Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 11th, 2008

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I have one final question, Mr. Chair.

If this amendment were to be dropped off, the first generation, and Bill C-37 were to continue, would you support that? If we take that paragraph out, the first generation that the minister is trying to bamboozle and put forward, do you have any problem with the rest of the bill?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Allard, a brief response, because time is up.

[Pierre Allard]

Actually, I can't give you an answer right now. I'd like to look at the numbers and understand what it is that I'm agreeing with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

And I'll remind the honourable member to watch the language. That wasn't parliamentary.

We'll go to Mr. St-Cyr, please.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being with us today. You seem to have closely followed the Committee's work in recent weeks. You are hoping that solutions can be found. The Committee did produce a unanimous report entitled “Reclaiming Citizenship for Canadians: A Report on the Loss of Canadian Citizenship”. I was wondering whether you had had a chance to read the report and the 13 recommendations it contains.

[Pierre Allard]

Yes, we have read the report, and the recommendations are in front of us. We even quoted some of them in our presentation. In short, I would say that the approach taken in the report was appropriate in terms of resolving the problem.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

The Government is telling us that the wording in the bill under review is in keeping with the spirit of the unanimous report and its 13 recommendations. I realize that you are not legal experts, but I would like you to tell me whether, based on your understanding of the bill and the unanimous report, you believe there is some consistency between the two. Does the bill reflect the Committee's recommendations?

[Pierre Allard]

We have a copy of the bill as debated at first reading. I am not a lawyer and the approach is fairly complex, but it does seem to me to be consistent with your recommendations.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Your brief contains four recommendations.

[Pierre Allard]

Those recommendations are taken from your report.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Yes, exactly, and those are the ones you deem to be most important.

[Pierre Allard]

Absolutely.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In terms of the recommendations, are you satisfied with the content of the bill, as currently worded?

[Pierre Allard]

Yes.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, that's great.

As regards the following recommendation, which reads: “The Committee recommends that Citizenship and Immigration Canada reassess whether there is any pressing and substantial reason for continuing not to recognize the DND 419 as proof of Canadian citizenship”, could you perhaps give us your thoughts on this particular matter?

[Pierre Allard]

I believe that Bill C-37 deals with this matter in sub-section 2(1) of the legislation, which proposes a new paragraph (g), which reads as follows:

(g) the person was born outside Canada before February 15, 1977 to a parent who was a citizen at the time of the birth and the person did not, before the coming into force of this paragraph, become a citizen;

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

You are saying that this would open the door to use of the DND 419 form?

[Pierre Allard]

Well, it would mean that the form would no longer be necessary.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

We know there are lots of stories of women who fell in love with soldiers abroad and left their families, their homes, and their countries to follow their husbands to Canada. It was a sacrifice, and it's tremendously unfair for them to discover they are not Canadian citizens. So I share your passion to get this bill done as quickly as possible.

Also, there is a section saying that persons born prior to 1977 can get Canadian citizenship from their Canadian father if they were born in wedlock, and from the Canadian mother if they were born out of wedlock. It's a strange rule and has caused lots of problems.

Hopefully, this bill will fix everything. My intention is to try to get this bill passed as quickly as possible, because I've seen the history of this bill. These issues have gone through, my gosh, six or seven studies and different types of bills, with one even going to the Senate and nothing then happening, and I fear this could happen again.

Because of that, I am going to ask you about the following. You talk about non-partisan work, and it seems that the Liberals want to make sure that second-generation children born abroad are Canadian citizens, which I think makes sense, but right now the issue is locked here. We could get this bill done very quickly and accommodate this element by doing something very simple, by just amending subclause 2(2), or actually taking it out of the bill, because right now it limits citizenship to the first generation born to, or adopted by, Canadian parents.

It would then deal with what Mr. Karygiannis was talking about, being a proud grandfather, and all of those problems arising from his daughter being abroad. If that would actually bring peace, so to speak, to this committee and help us to deal quickly with this issue, I would hope we could do clause-by-clause by Wednesday—with that amendment that I'm sure my Liberal colleagues will move. Then I hope the bill can be sent back to the House of Commons and hopefully all parties will say yea, and it will go to the Senate and they will say yea, and we'll get it done before the looming election call that I'm hearing in the background reaches us, because I certainly don't want to go through this two years from now.

[Pierre Allard]

If that is the solution to get this bill through, I think you will certainly have our support, no doubt.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I don't know how people feel about it, but let's work together.

But your prime priority is just to get it done?

[Pierre Allard]

Get the bill passed. I think it's been on the back burner a long time.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

A long time, yes.