Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 31st, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I would like to call the meeting to order, please.

Good day, everyone. I want to welcome you all here today as we begin our cross-country deliberations. We are the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, and we have been mandated to hold hearings on three very important matters, matters that we know are of interest to you and, judging from the number of people who want to meet our committee, of interest to quite a number of people right across the country.

We have approximately 52 panels that we will be hearing from between now and April 17. We're starting, of course, here in British Columbia and finishing up in St. John's, Newfoundland, some time around April 17.

If you're not already aware, our committee is made up of members from all parties in the House of Commons. After we complete our hearings, we will be presenting a report. Our officials here will be helping us to compile a report and make recommendations to government based on what we hear on these three very important topics that we are going to be hearing about, which are temporary and undocumented workers, immigration consultants, and Iraqi refugees.

Before recognizing the people we have at the table here, I have a point of order from Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. There are two points I want to address.

First, we are undertaking, as you mentioned, a cross-Canada tour, and I think, Mr. Chair, that when I conducted hearings as the chair, going across Canada, the media were allowed to film. That's why they're public meetings. I really hope your opening comments are on the record, because I think it's important for Canadians to know that we are travelling across the country to discuss important issues.

That's one, and I'd like to deal with that first before going on to the second.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I will ask the clerk for some advice on that.

I am advised by the clerk that the only reason we allow press at our meetings on the Hill is that they are governed by an agreement that allows the press to come to our meetings. I don't know if it would have been necessary to have agreement on that before we undertook our discussions.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have done cross-Canada tours before in 2003 and 2005, and the reason for going across Canada is to raise awareness of the issues. With all due respect to the clerk, I don't think he knows what he's talking about. The clerk does not run the committee. The committee runs the committee. I think it's time the committee recognized that. Otherwise we could have stayed in Ottawa. There's a very definite purpose why we are going on the road, and if need be, I could move a motion that the media be able to film the committee. I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, it's not that the chair doesn't want to have the press here. It is that the clerk informs me that it's not a power that is delegated to the committee to have press at the meeting. Now, the committee is master of its own rules, and I don't know how all members of the committee would feel about that, but it's not a power delegated to the committee.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Well, I've put the motion. Let's put it to a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm not sure I can accept motions, because we did have a motion moved by Maurizio Bevilacqua before we left, saying that there would be no substantive motions put forward during these hearings. And of course that was agreed to unanimously, so I think that's in violation of what we already voted upon. It came from your party that we wouldn't have substantive motions--

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

This isn't a substantive motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes, it is.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

We didn't say anything about being filmed in front of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That's a substantive motion.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I'd like to challenge the chair on that ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I don't think we can.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, the chair can be challenged at any time by the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, let me just say--

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

You're not running a road show that you can shut down like a dictator.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm not dictating to anyone. I'm reminding the committee what they have agreed to. And what they had agreed to at our pre-committee meeting was that Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua of your party put a motion on the floor that we would have no substantive motions at these committee hearings while we went across the country. We agreed on that. I called for a vote on that, and everyone agreed and said unanimously that we would not have any substantive motions. Now this is what you have agreed to, and this is how we set up our meetings on this.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I think the public knows that anybody can sit at the back of the room with a video camera and you can't throw them out. These are public meetings. I don't care what the clerk says, and unless you come up with something in Beauchesne's that says the press can't be here, the press has just as much right to be here as any citizen that can walk in and listen to what we are saying.

If you want to shut the press down, sir, then why don't you start by shutting this meeting down?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm not shutting the press down.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Oh, you are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm not shutting the meeting down; I'm just saying to you--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

You are shutting the press down. You are refusing the democratic freedom of the press to report. You are refusing that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

You are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm just reminding you what the agreement was.