Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 7th, 2008

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I did not want to focus too much on the technical details, but you can appreciate that for the committee, granting permanent resident status and granting citizenship are not quite the same thing.

Do you agree with the suggestion that employees should be allowed to change jobs while continuing to work in the same field, provided the new employer agrees to compensate the previous employer for any financial losses?

[Patrick J. Dillon]

If the workers came into Canada, into Ontario, in the construction industry, through the unionized trades they would automatically be able to move from employer to employer. If they came in through the unrepresented area, they might be able to move from employer to employer, but there's more than a reasonable chance that that's where the exploitation is going to take place. So those groups will not want their employees to be able to move.

Would we support the idea? Absolutely, we would.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Thank you very much.

Next we've got Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Chair. I've got a couple of comments and some questions.

First, according to the census, the population of our country has grown by 1.6 million people in five years, and of that, 1.1 million were newcomers to Canada. So it seems as if we're growing through immigration.

I think Mr. Dillon talked about the undocumented workers, saying they're difficult to represent, and there are obviously some abuses, perhaps of the temporary foreign workers in some cases. I wonder if you think any of the undocumented workers are here because of a lack of a legitimate means to acquire these jobs.

Second, I'd like to ask you a question about bridging. You mentioned that temporary foreign workers may need to meet regional or short-term needs, but in segments of the country there's a desperate need for particular kinds of trades or labour. We just had hearings in Alberta, British Columbia, and Saskatchewan. When they put out a want ad, they don't get the kind of people they need. So I'm wondering what your thoughts are about making a basis for temporary foreign workers or trades to bridge into potential permanent residency by virtue of their experience in the country and in some of the work they've had. I know the provincial nominee program is something the provinces are starting to take up. They can nominate people to fill needs that are specific to them and specific to their region, with the idea of having them on a more permanent resident-type basis.

My third question is this. For the purposes of your organization council or labour unions, are you prepared to incorporate the temporary foreign workers into your ranks to represent them and make sure they have an advocate if any of those rights are covered provincially? Should we have a basic minimum federal standard when we deal with temporary foreign workers?

I'll start with Mr. Dillon, and if anyone else has anything to add, feel free to do so.

[Patrick J. Dillon]

I would start by saying yes, we would support a system that recognizes them as they come in. The building trades unions are not supportive of people coming into the country illegally and gaining their employment illegally and then using that as a way to get past the.... If the immigration system needs adjustment, then I think it should be adjusted so that everybody coming in is playing by the same rules. We can live with any system if it's legitimate and it's enforced. My experience over the years is that we're not very good at enforcement of the laws we put in place.

I want to make another point on this whole immigration thing. I started out by saying we are pro-immigration. But I also think that Canada, as a fairly rich country, has the responsibility to train its own youth, and underemployed youth, and we also have a responsibility to train those people from foreign lands who come here. We should not be basing our immigration and training system on raping third world countries that need those skilled tradespeople in their own countries. I think that travesty is starting to occur. We're taking people from other countries that have invested money in their tradespeople. We're taking advantage by taking them out of their country. We have the money and the tools and the ability to do that training here, whether it be for Canadian youth or unemployed youth or immigrants coming into the country.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Now I go to someone else.

[Sean Strickland]

Philosophically, I think it would be fair to say we don't have an issue with temporary foreign workers, as long as they are in compliance with the regulations that are currently in place.

I don't think there would be a problem if the building trades organization helped transition temporary foreign workers to more permanent jobs in Canada. I think our centres that have been training skilled tradespeople for years would welcome that opportunity, as long as that temporary foreign worker is filling a current labour shortage and is in compliance with the standards that are currently in place.

So our issue largely comes around to point of entry compliance with the regulations as they currently exist, particularly when it comes to our experiences here, which are much different than they are in Alberta.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Thank you. You are out of time.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I just want to make a quick comment. I think it's fair to say we should do everything we can to educate our youth, to train those we have, and to involve other segments of society to the greatest degree we can. The statistics seem to show that if we do all of that, it would still take a fairly significant period of time, and we would still be short when you look at national needs.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Thank you.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank you.

Ms. McLaughlin, I was interested in the comment you made that for every person who goes back, there are another 1,000 people who want to come in.

[Janet McLaughlin]

Yes.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Don't they know the dangers that exist in Canada, the travesty that exists here or the difficulties that exist for them?

[Janet McLaughlin]

In some cases, they do, but the lure of the dollar is just that strong that they're willing to put up with those conditions.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

They're willing to come. Does workers' compensation of the principal province you're in reflect that to them? Doesn't an employer who employs foreign workers on a farm have to have workers' compensation?

[Janet McLaughlin]

Yes, and this is one of the issues I discuss in more detail in my brief, because this was one of the main issues I examined. Workers do have rights to health care and to workers' compensation. The problem is that their ability to access these rights is very constrained, because the minute they get sick or injured, they can be repatriated and not get the--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

My time is short, so just please answer in brief. They do have workers' compensation...?

[Janet McLaughlin]

Technically, yes, they do.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Do they pay into the Canada Pension Plan?

[Janet McLaughlin]

They do.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So when they retire at a certain point, at 65, they can get the Canada Pension Plan back in their home country?

[Janet McLaughlin]

Some can, but many do not because they do not have the information and support available to apply or they have not worked enough hours because they only worked for temporary periods. So many of them do pay--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sorry. Are you trying to tell me they can't get the Canada Pension Plan back home? Is this what you're telling me?

[Janet McLaughlin]

I said many of them can get it, but many also are not getting it for the reasons I just mentioned.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

The reasons were...?