Yes, I totally agree with that.
Evidence of meeting #24 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
Evidence of meeting #24 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
3:30 p.m.
Immigration Specialist, Chinese Community, Abtron Canada Inc.
Yes, I totally agree with that.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
3:30 p.m.
Immigration Specialist, Chinese Community, Abtron Canada Inc.
Yes, we certainly do.
3:30 p.m.
Norman Doyle St. John's East, CPC
The group just before you made an interesting recommendation that maybe we should have an advocacy office jointly administered by the federal and provincial governments for migrant workers at which they could report abuses, be made aware of their rights, and what have you. Do you have any thoughts on that? Would it be a good thing to do, say here in Ontario, or in Vancouver or in Quebec, where we do have a lot of migrant workers, to have an advocacy office in which they can report abuses and be made aware of their rights and what have you?
Do you have any thoughts on that kind of structure being set up? The question is for anyone at all who might care to make a comment on that.
3:30 p.m.
General Manager, F.A.R.M.S. (Foreign Agricultural Resource Management Services)
With respect to the seasonal agricultural workers program, I don't necessarily think so, nor would the employers we represent necessarily need it. They do have foreign government liaison officers posted in Canada who represent those workers. They visit them on the farms. If there are issues, they deal with the issues.
As far as the undocumented workers go, I can't speak about them.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Andrew Telegdi
Thank you very much.
One of the things I want to underline is that one of the reasons we are having trouble processing people is that the Liberal government at the end put in $700 million to process people, and that was to be over five years, which came to $140 million a year. Unfortunately, that money was withdrawn by this government. That is on the record from when we went through questioning the officials.
I very much agree with you, Mr. Sy, that we have to come to some kind of resolution on the undocumented workers. There was a program of regularization put in place, which was about to be introduced, and this government got rid of it, which is really tragic because we have all those undocumented people who can be taken advantage of. They operate outside of the economy. You suggested that they be given a permit, as long as they do their English and everything else, that we should find a way to regularize them.
Anyway, I want to thank this panel for coming and making your presentations.
Now we're going to make way for the next panel, which is Mr. Lambrinos. We're going to hear from him.
Thank you.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Andrew Telegdi
We're going to reconvene.
We're going to listen to Mr. Lambrinos, who's with the adult entertainment industry.
Sir, you have seven minutes.
April 7th, 2008 / 3:40 p.m.
Tim Lambrinos Executive Director, Adult Entertainment Association of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to make a presentation today to the committee. I would like to welcome Quebec MPs Mr. Carrier and Mr. St-Cyr to the province of Ontario.
I want to ensure that we understand there's an expectation to provide some further information. I also want to take the opportunity today to provide some information about the industry.
The industry is the Adult Entertainment Association of Canada. It's an organization of industry stakeholders I helped develop a number of years ago to work on self-regulatory practices in the industry so the industry can work with government.
We've established an immigration subcommittee. It's a subcommittee of the board of directors that reports back to the board to improve facets for temporary foreign workers, and we've had discussions with various levels of government.
Citizenship and Immigration Canada is already aware that they need to improve the current program. They've spoken to the committee. HRSDC is aware that they need to enhance employer monitoring and compliance with employers, but everybody needs the tools and mandate to execute it.
As we've heard from other witnesses today, we're suggesting business partnering initiatives about what to do with LMOs and how to find new employers. You need to work together with the business associations, to be involved with government, because HRSDC doesn't work in the field. Most importantly, we need to implement preventive measures rather than strictly enforcement.
The departments have said to us that they have a number of reasons why they can't do anything: there are difficulties, it's out of their mandate, there are technicalities, etc. What we think should be done, not just for our industry but for others, is that the government should focus on encouraging legal movement.
One of the problems is that the current government department structure is uncompromising. The three departments work on their own mandate. We're recommending to the committee that there be a quarterback; somebody should be at the helm. In World War II, Dwight Eisenhower was appointed. If you want to be effective, you need to come to the realization that there needs to be a quarterback.
I believe in French the reference would be to a “capitaine de bateau”.
The government has said the pressure is likely to grow. They've already said the number is expected to increase by 25% in all aspects. We feel they should be more responsive to Canadian employers. The government estimates anywhere from 80,000 to 150,000 immigrants will be undocumented, which means quite clearly that on average one in two foreigners coming in is illegal.
Everybody here is aware of the current process. HRSDC does the first review. They review, confirm, and verify an employer's status. Then it goes to CIC for formal approval. As everybody on the committee is aware, in 2006 we found that HRSDC approved 163,000, but when you look at CIC, only 113,000 were approved, meaning there's a 29% rejection rate. A significant number of people in Canada know there's a job waiting for them. HRSDC has already said they're fine with these employers, but CIC is rejecting them. We think the emphasis should be on trying to minimize the amount of illegal activity.
When we look at our industry compared to the national average, HRSDC has a 93% acceptance rate for Adult Entertainment Association members. The average is 80% across Canada for all industries. When we went to CIC, the rejection rate was 29%, so that would be a 71% acceptance rate, but we're at a 93% rejection rate. It's clear there are messages, and in this committee we understand the reason. Unofficial measures have already been taken to ensure few exotic dance visas are going to be accepted at embassies, and this is what we think we should be working to prevent.
CBSA comes into play here because they're given a mandate to deport those who are at risk. They've already told us 4,000 criminals are waiting to be deported. They prioritized the risk of what they have to do, and we know what that is.
What we want to do as an industry, Mr. Chairman, is provide educational awareness materials. We have this in five different languages and not just three: the government offers English, French, and Spanish.
3:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Adult Entertainment Association of Canada
Okay. I'm trying.
We're doing facility workspace checks and verifications with our industry. It's part of our mandate to ensure that all adult entertainment clubs working within the realm of the adult entertainment association are going to be given protections.
We have also been able to work together with municipal governments in establishing liaison officers with police services boards to ensure that there's going to be a coordinated educational aspect about working on prevention in the industry.
The problem that we see as an industry, as Mr. Linklater has reported to this committee, is that they don't have any evidence backing up why they're creating a solution for this industry. They created a solution, saying, “This is what we want to do against this industry.” What is the evidence? “Well, we haven't gotten to that point yet.” That's not the way things work. Usually what happens is you identify a problem and then you create a solution based on the problem, not the opposite way around.
The other thing I want to add is that we already have a 1-800 number established to ensure there's a confidential line where women who are working in the industry can report abuses and problems within the industry, and none of those problems has existed or come forward on our 1-800 line.
We also conducted a series of public meetings in Canada, in Ontario, throughout August, and just to summarize, what we heard from the women in the industry was not that they were being exploited or abused, and so on. We heard that they were hard-working, law-abiding, and taxpaying, that they were providing fundamental financial support to families abroad, and that entertainers had selected to come to work in Canada primarily because Canada has a superior reputation internationally.
Lastly, the experts have told us that this will create an underground, illegal network. What we're recommending is that you disallow agents, third-party contractors. That should not be permitted. We're recommending that you allow education for prospective workers; allow a re-entry visa, as we heard from the university professor; and also allow a new employer potential, which we've heard from other industries as well. We feel they should be working together with industry associations.
Solutions can be simple. What we need to do as a group, together, is to involve a quarterback attitude but discourage the creation of illegal paths.
I just want to point out my last line. The expectation is that we would come back in Ottawa with some more information.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Andrew Telegdi
Okay. Thank you.
You were 30 seconds over, but that's fine.
Mr. Karygiannis.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank Mr. Lambrinos for being here. Certainly his presentation spoke for itself. I have no questions.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Lambrinos.
Many employers have made presentations to the committee on temporary foreign workers. The initial aim of the program was to address the shortage of labour. In the case of skilled workers, it is clear that there are simply not enough workers with the skills needed to fill certain positions.
Unskilled workers make up a second category of workers. They really do not require special training to hold down a job. This area of employment has grown in recent years, particularly in Western Canada where the economy and the oil industry have been booming. It is even hard to find people to serve coffee at Tim Hortons. That is what employers told us. They have to bring in foreign workers.
In your particular industry, that is the adult tourism or entertainment industry, as you call it, where do things stand in terms of the need for foreign workers?
3:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Adult Entertainment Association of Canada
I would like to answer that question in English, Mr. St-Cyr.
What we have determined is that 40% of the industry in Ontario has a need to apply for foreign workers. Part of the basis has been that there are stigmas. It's not throughout all of Canada, as you're probably aware. There are certain social stigmas associated with being identified. There are certain privacies that entertainers need.
The word “exotic” traditionally means foreign, so traditionally it has been a venue for foreign workers, foreign dancers, for example. But it's not all of the clubs and it's not all of the demand. It's based on supply and demand, and there are certain venues where there's a demand to have entertainment, but one of the perceived problems is that the industry workforce works on what's called an “independent contractor” basis, and they go to where it's busy, like entertainment does. They work the circuit; they move to where it's busy.
So these establishments are there to be set up for businesses. There is an apparent demand. Quite frankly, I've found that if you're not serving that demand, ultimately what happens is the demand gets steered into more unregulated and uncontrolled activities.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Do the establishments that are part of your industry hire illegal or undocumented workers?
3:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Adult Entertainment Association of Canada
We would say there aren't, but in looking at the numbers, the likelihood is yes. How they're there, I don't know: whether it's through fake identifications, whether it's through some type of network.... We're doing all we can to minimize it.
What we'd like to say, though, is that the government should also ensure that the workforce is going to be there as unskilled workers, to prevent there being pressure steering workers into the unregulated area.
A number of our recommendations, Monsieur St-Cyr, talked about deleting agents, the third-party contractors, because that is a problem that has been identified by two media reports. Their agents were directing women not only into clubs but into illegal prostitution rings. They were being brought over on the exotic dance visa, and now they're doing other visas—modelling, and things like that.
So what we say, Monsieur St-Cyr, is that quite frankly there probably are. How many? I don't know, particularly, in our clubs. I know that since we have a 93% acceptance ratio from HRSDC, it's probably minimal. We don't want to have the clubs in our association being pressured to then work with illegal workers.
But there's no question, they're throughout Canada.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Andrew Telegdi
Okay.
Ms. Grewal?
Well, I thank you very much for your presentation.
Just before we adjourn, I'd like to inform the committee that today at 3 o'clock we had a minute of silence in the House regarding the passing of our latest soldier in Afghanistan, so I pass that on to you.
3:50 p.m.
An hon. member
Could we do the same?
