Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 28th, 2008

[Steve Sloan]

We have the same system restraint as the RCMP has. We track our cases by the section individuals are charged under as opposed to the nature of the individual, according to some numbers in relation to charges under various sections of IRB that relate to counselling misrepresentation, but how many of those involve registered or unregistered consultants I cannot say.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Linklater.

[Les Linklater]

CIC does not have responsibility for prosecutions, and so we rely on our collaboration with CBSA and RCMP.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Guilbault.

[François Guilbault]

We look at people who are current claimants and appellants in front of us at the board and we look at whether they're authorized representatives or not. That's the limit of our mandate.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Could you kindly provide the committee with some information on this? It seems ridiculous for us to be writing a report and making recommendations when we don't have an idea of the scope of the problem.

Superintendent Cabana, do you know how many cases of malfeasance we have that come from within the department? Do we keep a record of that?

[C/Supt Mike Cabana]

No, sir, I don't.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Linklater, do we keep a record of it?

[Les Linklater]

I'm not aware of any such records, but I'll check with our human resources department.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I've heard of investigations overseas of employees selling visas. I've heard of cases in Toronto where visas were being sold, not just visas but even blank passports, and I would like to get a feeling for that.

Mr. Linklater, you told us the immigration situation is complex and it leads to problems and many victims. I'm sure you have looked at Bill C-50.

[Les Linklater]

Yes.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It seems to me that Bill C-50 is going to make it even more complex, because now instead of dealing with the regulations, we'll be dealing with ministerial instructions.

Have you looked at how you're going to be able to manage a system that's more complicated than the present system, not as transparent, not as open?

[Les Linklater]

I believe the minister and officials will be appearing before the committee in early May to discuss main estimates and Bill C-50. Today I'm prepared to speak about the role of immigration consultants.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

On the immigration consultant side, maybe you can take a leadership role and get us some numbers. It's very unsatisfactory for you people to show up here and not give us any concrete numbers. I find it amazing, quite frankly, that you would not be prepared with some numbers for us.

Could you do that, Mr. Linklater?

[Les Linklater]

Based on the systems and information we have available with partners, we'll be able to provide the committee with what information we have.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Could we get a timeline on that?

[Les Linklater]

We will endeavour to do this within the next two to three weeks.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

All right.

Mr. Linklater, could you also provide us with some information on malfeasance within the department itself?

[Les Linklater]

Yes, Mr. Chair, we'd be prepared to do that.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

That is much appreciated.

Now, Superintendent Cabana, it would seem to me that when you're dealing with immigration matters the RCMP should have some idea on the statistics. You have to be able to break them out somehow. You told us you had 60 cases involving organized crime. Can you tell us the nature of those cases, without being specific?

[C/Supt Mike Cabana]

Without being specific, I would advise that they range from issues of corruption to fraud, as well as offences of counselling misrepresentation under IRPA.

Again, sir, you have to realize that the mandate in relation to the enforcement of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act does not fall within our department. Working in partnership with CBSA and CIC, our focus is on those cases where there's either a national security component or reasonable grounds to believe that organized crime is involved.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

With respect to cases involving people smuggling, especially now with the procurement of temporary foreign workers and brokers overseas who charge excessive fees to people to eventually get here--information provided and what have you--it would seem to me that you would have a direct connection with the department in that area.

[C/Supt Mike Cabana]

We do have a connection with the various departments that have a role in the enforcement of IRPA. Again, if you focus on investigations abroad, it brings a whole range of different issues. We don't have enforcement jurisdiction abroad. We have to work with the authorities from those jurisdictions and provide them with whatever assistance is required.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We have to go to our next questioner.

Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This topic raises many questions. I have several to choose from. My first question will be for Mr. Cabana.

You are from the RCMP and you investigate complaints that you receive. Are your investigations limited to complaints of misinformation or poor services received from certain immigration consultants? Do individuals complain of having had dealings with a consultant who was not a member of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants, or CSIC?