Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

If somebody could hire a caregiver right away, then that would solve a major problem.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So the Dhalla family is not the only one in this situation, where the caregivers have gone rogue and done something that isn't appropriate. There are thousands of families in this position.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

They are far from alone—and that's why we try to keep discussion about the Dhalla case to the minimum and concentrate on where the problems come from.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I understand that there were two meetings the minister had at the end of April.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I believe there were meetings on the 25th and the 26th.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Were you invited on the 26th?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

No, we were not.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Why not?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

The minister's office suggested that the meeting on the 26th was for members of the caregiver community. Perhaps it was for those directly in the program, rather than for those related to the program.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Aren't you a member of the caregiver community in the program? You take care of them. I know that the parliamentary secretary was saying there were complaints. Were you singled out because you might have recommendations that the minster wouldn't want to hear?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

That would be harder to say. I don't know how familiar the minister is with our association.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Time's up, Mr. Karygiannis, but I'll let him finish.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

It's possible, but I couldn't confirm it. I think there was a more select crowd on the 26th, and the record will show who was there on that day.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Madame Thaï Thi Lac.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Good morning. Thank you for being here with us.

I want to ask you several questions. We know how the open permit system works. Don't you think it could be somewhat difficult to offer an open permit to live-in caregivers, taking into account their special situation? They often arrive here with little money and they succeed in putting some money aside.

Right now, when they are sponsored, we know that the sponsors must agree to support these persons for three years so that they don't have to go on welfare. If they do go on welfare, then the sponsors must reimburse the benefits received to the government.

If that person is between jobs and does not have any money, because she has been unemployed for four, five or six months, how can she meet her needs — we know the conditions, that person is not eligible for welfare? Would an open permit not cause some uncertainty or a probable uncertainty in such a case?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

From what you just explained, certainly it would sound like that's the case. In any situation where they're earning so little money and need to bridge the time between employers, there's a very real risk that they won't be able to get by during that time.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You have also mentioned the very long waiting times for permits renewal.

When somebody leaves a job but gets another one in Canada from an employer who could offer a contract, the waiting time is relatively long. I know a case where the person had to also renew her permit so as not to be illegally in Canada. But the government had to wait for the approval of Human Resources and Skills Development before issuing that permit, because that person did not have a valid contract in Canada and she could be refuses a permit.

Couldn't we allow that person to make two applications at the same time, one for the work permit and one for the contract, to join those applications to reduce the stress? Don't you think this could be a good solution?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Absolutely. That sounds like a very attractive solution. I think anything that could cut down on the processing would be a great step forward.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We have talked a lot this last while about creating an organization that would help live-in caregivers.

But what would be the most needed changes the government should make to optimize his services? Right now, even with all that good will, with a good training for the caregivers, with the NPOs that help the caregivers, if the government doesn't optimize his services, the waiting times will be very long.

If you had one recommendation to make to the government to streamline the system, what would it be?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I think a great step forward would be to have a centralized processing centre for all these permits, for the renewals, and for the contracts, even to look at, for instance, the qualifications of caregivers who come to Canada from overseas, just to make sure that all across the board there is one standard. The family could call to check up and ask what is the status of the caregiver's papers. They could get a good, clear answer and we could make sure that those standards are centralized.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Merci.

Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much for your time and your presentation.

Could you please tell us how many hours per week a caregiver should generally be expected to work?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Well, many expect to be working full-time hours, so I think in Ontario that's up to 44 hours per week. There are families who have expectations that are significantly higher than that, and caregivers need to understand they don't have to work beyond that. If they want to work just full-time, they should only have to work just full-time.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

You know what? We have heard stories that some caregivers are expected to work more than 12 hours per day and every day of the week. Have you heard similar stories to this one?