Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

If there was something like a white list, then the agencies contravening the laws in place could just be struck from that list. The people who are behind those practices could just be barred from bringing caregivers into Canada.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

What about employers?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

With employers, it seems harder to say. In a lot of cases, the family needs somebody immediately, and there's a caregiver who might not have somebody to stay with. They're not earning huge amounts of money under the program. They're sending a lot of money back home. They may have been left without a job very recently. As it stands today, a lot of caregivers, because of these terrible waiting times, need to start employment early. It's just a question of being able to buy food.

I'd say that cracking down on employers might be a very good idea, but that would need to come after waiting times have been addressed.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Chow.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Tristan, I had a chance to take a quick look at the website for your association. I wonder if you could expand on something for me.

When I clicked on the website, I saw, other than the name of the association, complaints as the first thing highlighted. I found that intriguing, in a way. You would think that, for most organizations, the first thing they would do, in terms of someone seeing who they are, is explain what they do, what their advocacy role is, what their responsibilities are, and how they can actually help. But on your website, the absolute first thing that's on there is complaints for nannies and caregivers, and then for employers.

Could you explain to me why that has become such a critical piece of what you do, and why it would be the first thing on your website?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Well, more than anything these days with the program, I think we're looking at problems. There isn't a dialogue right now on ways we can improve the rough edges. They're the people who are facing significant problems. In terms of our role, the better we can communicate that, or help people find the right person to talk to for a problem, it seems like the best thing we can do.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

You note on your site that you get literally hundreds of complaints on a daily basis.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

That might be outdated. I think these days it's probably a bit less than that.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

All right.

Obviously, part of the reason we're here is because of the issues that arose out of the Toronto Star story regarding the Dhalla family. Were complaints from the caregivers noted with your association?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

We did not have contact with the ones in question.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

The ones in question....

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I mean the ones who went to Intercede originally. I'm not sure which case you're referring to in particular, but I don't believe I've seen names in any of the Toronto Star articles that cross with our own list.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Did the employer lodge any complaints with your association?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Is there a specific case you're referring to?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Yes, it's the case of the Dhalla family. When Ms. Dhalla was here she argued that the reverse was actually true, and it was her family that had been taken advantage of. On your website it indicates that you can register a concern or complaint as a caregiver or as an employer.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

There was no complaint filed from that family.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

One of the other things I noted on the website was project 2009. Did that emanate largely out of the issues that have arisen regarding caregivers and nannies in the last number of months?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Absolutely. It started two months ago and will be wrapping up at the end of this week. It was largely in response to Toronto Star articles, given there's so much attention to the issue these days with minimal funds. This is the best time to take action.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It would be interesting for this committee if you could submit a copy of that report when you've completed its recommendations. It's obvious that the attention that's been paid to the Toronto Star articles and this specific issue has touched a lot of associations like yours that work with caregivers.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I'd be happy to do that.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I also want to ask you about a couple of issues regarding caregivers working illegally in the home. It is probably the biggest issue we've dealt with in this short-term review we're doing leading up to a report. How do we put an employer in a position where they're advising the caregiver that if they enter the home they are working illegally? How do we stop that from happening?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Do you mean creating a relationship responsibility where the employer is obligated to tell the caregiver?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It's obvious that both the employer and the caregiver are not acting in their own interests...or they're acting in their own interests, but are probably a little too self-interested in terms of not waiting for an LMO or a work permit so they can both enter into the association legally. The biggest issue we have here is how to deal with that.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I agree that is a major issue. I point to the waiting times as being the most significant way of addressing that. In the report the committee put out there's mention of more government information, web portals, and contacting an NGO. I think those are all fantastic ideas for communicating that information.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I've had a lot of allegations from the caregivers who were here about tasks they were asked to do that they believed were inappropriate--i.e., snow shovelling, shoe shining, and cleaning off-site businesses. How do we assist a caregiver from not being put into those types of positions, whether it's in regard to the issue relating to the Dhalla family, or at large?

I'm sure caregivers in large part feel they almost have to do these things, or they're forced to do this work that has nothing to do with the work they agreed to do coming into the home. They're put in a position, because of the employer-employee relationship, that they fear they'll be sent home, fired, or put out on the street. How do we deal with that? From my perspective that's where this whole thing went off the rails.