Evidence of meeting #13 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Yes, I will.
As I was explaining, as the number of members declined, the number of claims continued to increase, as the minister indicated.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Many questions have been raised about the advantages and disadvantages of having public servants rather then Board members deal with cases. After scrutiny, one realizes that both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Usually, Board members are considered to be more independent from the government since they cannot be removed.
However, they are often considered political appointments, and there have been some under this government and some under the previous government. As to public servants, the balance of advantages and disadvantages is reversed.
As far as costs are concerned, can you tell me if there is any benefit from hiring public servants? Are the costs similar for public servant decision-makers and Board member decision-makers?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
The cost of a person appointed by the Governor in Council is likely to be slightly higher than the cost of an RPD decision-maker in the event that the position is classified at the same level as the current classification for the immigration division members.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
You say that the cost is slightly higher. What is the difference?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
I believe the difference is about $25,000, but I'll confirm that.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
All right. Since you deal with regular immigration cases, do you believe that this two-level structure--with public servants making the first decisions and Board members hearing appeals--is beneficial in the sense that it allows for some balance between the advantages and disadvantages of each type of decision-makers? Do you think this is one of the strengths of the present system for dealing with immigration claims, and of the future system for dealing with refugee claims?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Sir, are you talking about the current system with the immigration division and the immigration appeal division?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Yes, I think there are advantages to having a mixed model. I do. And I must say that this is in keeping with the models in other countries, which is to have a first-level public servant decision-maker and then an appeal, which in most cases is to an immigration court. Here, it's a specialized court.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
So, you believe that having a mixed model for immigration is a benefit. I suppose you also believe that it would be beneficial to have the same type of mixed model for dealing with refugee claims.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
That's a matter of government policy, sir. I really can't comment on that.
I can certainly tell you that for the immigration cases I do believe it's an advantage.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
I understand that you would not want to express an opinion on that.
However, this is one of my concerns. I believe that the mixed system is a good system. What is unfortunate is that we will lose that benefit in the case of citizens from designated countries since they will not have access to both types of decision-makers. So, there will not be the same type of balance as that offered by the immigration system.
I also have a question about hiring public servants for the first decision-making level. Will you restrict your hiring to the pool of career public servants, that is to say to people already working in the public service, or will you be ready to hire specialists from the general public?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Mr. St-Cyr, are you asking about the new refugee protection division?
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
We're going to ensure that the IRB has a high calibre of decision-makers at the first level, as it is important that the first level remain strong. That's what we're renowned for. We're renowned across the world for our high-quality decision-making. That won't change.
While the work description for the new RPD member position has yet to be drafted, it is expected that the competencies will be based on those contained in the existing competency profile for GIC members under the current system. I have those, if you would like to hear them.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
I understand.
In hiring, the objective will be to have a suitable mix of qualified candidates. The IRB will adhere to the Public Service Employment Act and the Public Service Commission core values of merit and non-partisanship and the guiding values of transparency, access, representativeness, and fairness in the development of its human resources plan. It will build on its best practices and successes with respect to the recruitment and management of the new cadre of GIC decision-makers for RAD and the public servant decision-makers.
