Evidence of meeting #42 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
But what do we replace it with? Do we quite simply replace it with statistics that define where the immigrants are physically?
Board Chair, Asian Community AIDS Services
With regard to immigrants and where immigrants settle, it's quite easy to find those statistics, they exist already. We know not only that the CIC keeps track of that, but Statistics Canada also has that kind of information.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
I'm going to come back to you, Ms. Aman.
To follow up on these questions, do you think that the needs of immigrants are the same regardless of where they come from? For example, is a new worker who comes from a European country likely to need as much, more or less aid than an Afghan refugee?
Board Chair, Asian Community AIDS Services
Thank you for that. That point is actually pertinent to this discussion, in part because one of the things you've heard already is the complexity of servicing multiple needs with, in our case, one worker. The challenge around that is that we have to adapt. When we have workers we are able to access the resources already available. But if you ask the individual to do that, it's going to be a challenge, it's going to take them time, and most likely, as we've seen, individuals fall through the cracks.
Executive Director, Northwood Neighbourhood Services
What I wanted to say is that the landing numbers, as indicated by my colleague, are inaccurate because a lot of clients, when they come to Canada, go where their relatives are. In Ontario there seem to be a lot of immigrants settling. It's easier to adapt. The multicultural component in Ontario, especially in Toronto, is huge, and a lot of people are attracted. So even though you send them to Alberta or smaller cities, they end up in Toronto.
To respond to your second question on the needs of European immigrants compared to those of Afghan immigrants, there are so many factors in immigration. First of all is the language issue. If a European refugee or immigrant comes to Toronto, they don't have the language barrier. Still, they have all the other barriers—being new in the country, where to go for services, knowing what services are available, and all that.
The other piece is that there's a difference between the foreign-trained professional and the person who is illiterate who comes from a refugee camp. There is a huge gap. The person who has foreign credentials and speaks the language might need simple guidance on where to go for services, while the person who has language barriers, who has trauma from being in a refugee camp, and who does not have a profession might be a case study where we carry the file for two or three years, compared to the person who is a foreign-trained professional.
Conservative
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
Thank you.
This committee heard a number of witnesses. Last year we did a study on best practices on settlement services for immigrants. We made a recommendation. The recommendations were mostly agreed to by the CIC. It talked about how smaller agencies should obtain more support from CIC, and that there are services like mental health services. Numbers aren't the only thing. There are also different types of needs, so it needs a holistic, comprehensive approach. We did that study.
During that time there was no inkling that there were going to be any cuts. There was no discussion of what would happen if the pot shrank. So this came as a big surprise.
Are you aware of any discussion between the federal CIC and provincial and municipal counterparts? I know a lot of these agencies are also supported by the provincial, municipal...and the United Way of Greater Toronto, for example. They seem to have been caught off guard completely.
Are you aware of any internal discussion, or was the first time anybody heard of it in that letter just before Christmas?
Board Chair, Asian Community AIDS Services
If I may, Ms. Chow, we approached the City of Toronto as well as the Ontario government to find out if we could access some funding to continue this, and then also to find out if there were perhaps some discussions. From our understanding, no: no for funding and no discussions. So there is no stopgap and there is no continuation.
Executive Director, Northwood Neighbourhood Services
Yes. I believe when we called the provincial ministry of citizenship, they were completely caught off guard and they were not completely aware. There has not been any discussion regarding this funding cut, as far as I know.
The one thing I would like to ask is this. CIC did a complete revamp and they called it the Welcoming Communities, and they told us last year, be creative--
Executive Director, Northwood Neighbourhood Services
The five pillars and all that. They had a conference and they brought over 50 of their staff to be trained at the OCASI conference. We put a lot of time and energy into being creative and putting in our proposal. Why did they waste all their time and money in training their staff if they were going to cut?
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
We also said when we were studying the best practices, having partnerships with different organizations working together is a very good model. It eliminates duplication, it helps the clients by having one-stop shopping rather than going to different agencies. It was a lot of work putting it together and having the agencies trying to work with each other. I know that was happening, but again there was no inkling that this was going to come down. So a lot of agencies, I suppose, ended up wasting a lot of time and a lot of energy imagining what's possible and then they got a rude shock. Is that what actually happened?
Board Chair, Asian Community AIDS Services
Yes. For us, certainly, the indication was that OCASI--. Certainly ACAS has and continues to be engaged with OCASI, the Ontario network, in trying to make sure there's no duplication of services. What we try to do is, if individuals we find do not fit our criteria of niche needs, we can refer them and vice versa. That's been our experience. We try to maintain that, because these are public funds, there's no need to waste the funds. We try to use them as effectively and efficiently as we can.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
Thank you.
Can I just ask a question of Mr. Tam who is in Vancouver? Are you aware of any funding cuts in different organizations in Vancouver?
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
Not at this moment. Again, as I mentioned, the Canada-B.C. agreement is a multi-year agreement. Our current contract with the B.C. government ends in September this year, and there will be another round of requests for proposals for the next couple of years' service delivery. At this moment, we have not received any funding cuts from the provincial government. We know the transfer payments will be made according to the Canada-B.C. agreement, which I think was signed last year. So as service providers, we haven't been told anything about funding reductions or cuts.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Tam, for talking to us so early in the morning. It's really great to welcome you here.
I really appreciate everything you and SUCCESS have been doing in the community, not only for the Chinese community, but for other communities as well.
Can you give us a bit more detail about the programs you are delivering under the transfer payments? Then, also, how do you go through the process to receive government funding?
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
First of all, the funding is under ISAP, the immigration settlement and adaptation program. This framework is agreed on by CIC and the B.C. government, in consultation with the service providers.
At this moment, we have three streams of service. Stream one is a general information and orientation service for newcomers. Stream two is about the integration programs, such as the host program, the mentoring program, and labour market integration. And stream three is ELSA, which is the language training. In Ontario or in other parts of Canada, it is called LINC, but in British Columbia we call it ELSA. It also receives indirect funding from CIC.
In the last round, we went through a big public consultation in British Columbia. The provincial government decided to integrate streams one and two. So in the next round of requests for proposals, it won't be information, orientation, or mentoring. Agencies have to look at an integrated and comprehensive model, serving immigrant individuals and families. This is a good move. It is consistent with the CIC policy that under modernization we are moving to a more integrated and comprehensive approach to serving new immigrant families.
In British Columbia, at least in the metro Vancouver area, we work as a consortium or as a big partnership when we deliver programs. For example, in metro Vancouver—which is composed of Vancouver, Burnaby, and New Westminster—three major organizations form a consortium to get the service contracts. We will work with each other to complement each string and capacity so that we divide—
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. Tam, I would also like to thank you for all your work for SUCCESS. I know it's quite early in the morning in B.C.
I've had the pleasure of working with SUCCESS before, and I know all the great things your organization does for immigrant communities in B.C. Your organization has consistently delivered value for taxpayers' money.
Can you talk about the importance of vetting the service provider organizations to make sure they are delivering value for the taxpayers' money?
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
Sorry, can you repeat the last part of the question?
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I made a couple of announcements at your organization and it is doing a great job. All we want to know is how well you are using the money that was delivered to your organization.
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
First of all, we were already a large partnership structure in our community. We were in partnership with other service providers as well as various government departments and NGOs. And we also use a lot of volunteers. We always tell the B.C. government that they give us $1 and we produce $3 or $4 in value of service by leveraging community participation, volunteer participation, and working with other organizations.
