Yes, I'm saying--
Evidence of meeting #42 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Well, the chairman hasn't seen it yet, but I hear it's quite good.
9:05 a.m.
Executive Director, Association for New Canadians
It's very good. The poor king was left in the room--
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
9:05 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:05 a.m.
Executive Director, Association for New Canadians
I'm far enough away, you can't hurt me!
Thank you for this opportunity.
I'm Bridget Foster, and I am the executive director of the Association for New Canadians in Newfoundland and Labrador. I've been doing the job for 30 years, so I think I'm just here for historical reasons. Thank God you can't see me.
We are the main settlement service providers for immigrants and refugees in the province. Our services range from the delivery of the resettlement assistance program and settlement and orientation services to support integration such as ESL, volunteer programs, and labour market support. Furthermore, the organization works extensively in the area of public education in order to promote the value of immigration, to increase cross-cultural awareness, and to combat barriers to access.
Like other settlement agencies across the country, we do our utmost to provide a comprehensive array of programs and services on limited budgets and to provide high levels of support for immigrants and refugees.
As the only federally funded settlement agency in the province, our situation is somewhat unique when compared to some other provinces in Canada. We have long worked under an integrated service delivery model. This, I believe, has proven to be quite effective and efficient, allowing us to ensure that maximum resources are dedicated to service delivery.
We like to believe we were ahead of CIC when it comes to modernized settlement programming, as we have long been delivering a continuum of integrated services. Of course, I'm wondering if our approach may have been born more out of a need for survival than a talent for ingenious planning.
The settlement service provider organizations have a crucial role to play in ensuring a positive settlement experience for newcomers. I believe it is critical for agencies to be able to maintain infrastructure and qualified staff despite fluctuations in numbers of newcomers coming to the area's provinces.
This leads me to address some of the challenges associated with the sector in general. In a nutshell, we are increasingly challenged by administrative caps, funding reductions, and funding uncertainty. As a result, it is becoming much more difficult for organizations to cover administrative and operational expenses. This affects the ability of organizations to meet growing accountability and reporting requirements. In addition, it becomes more difficult to recruit and retain qualified administrative staff and to produce solid plans for the future.
The bottom line is that agencies are spending a tremendous amount of time on reporting and other related paperwork. It is time for these funding processes to be streamlined, as was recommended by the report of the blue ribbon panel on grant and contribution programs.
Beyond concerns related to infrastructure and staff retention, there are other issues that I believe influence effective program delivery.
The settlement of immigrants and refugees can be a complex and lengthy process requiring extensive follow-up and support for many years. Some individuals adapt and integrate quite quickly, while others require more time than is allotted under the resettlement assistance program (RAP).
One option that needs to be given serious consideration is to increase the funding under the resettlement assistance program and to extend support beyond the initial period of four to six weeks. I believe this would result in more positive outcomes for government-assisted refugees. I believe that increased funding for the RAP program is long overdue.
In looking at the 2011-12 allocations, I think we have fared better than some provinces. Nonetheless, we too have had lean years. Last year, we had to reduce our budget by 15%. For a small agency like ours, this reduction has had a significant impact, resulting in the elimination of key positions and reductions in administrative and operational expenditures. The bottom line is that there is never enough funding, so we must draw on our creative talents and work in cooperation with our federal and provincial partners and funders to sustain key programming.
I think we have recognized the importance of working in partnership at all levels of government. This province, in 1998, established the Coordinating Committee on Newcomer Integration (CCNI), and this committee has taken a leadership role in engaging stakeholders to address immigration and inclusion, as well as integration policies, issues, and practices. Thirteen years into its mandate, the CCNI has established itself as a credible and influential working group of people. We believe it's really of great value.
Another key alliance is the Canadian Immigrant Settlement Sector Alliance, CISSA-ACSEI. This is a pan-Canadian organization that has worked to advance public policy and programs. In fact, in 2010, with support from CIC, we spearheaded a piece of research called “Reconfiguring Settlement and Integration: A Service Provider Strategy for Innovation and Results”. This was done by the Meyer Burstein consulting group. It's actually a very interesting piece of work and I think a valuable first step.
Another valuable alliance is the SIJPPC. This is a working group. It's the Settlement and Integration Joint Policy and Program Council. This is a group that has representatives from both the federal and provincial organizations and governments. It's supported by CIC, and we do have the opportunity to have face-to-face meetings twice a year with the SIJPPC.
I believe these organizations, which have umbrella representatives, are of vital importance to development planning and innovation. Indeed, I think networking opportunities, such as those afforded by the national settlement conference—
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
9:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Association for New Canadians
Absolutely.
The last national settlement conference was in 2003. I think it might be very useful to perhaps think of having another one.
The Newfoundland government now has an immigration strategy that is proving to be helpful.
On that note, thank you very much for your time.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Thank you very much, Ms. Foster. We have some questions from the committee.
Mr. Oliphant.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all of you for the work you do. It's work, I know, that is usually done on a shoestring budget with staff who work hard. Thank you for multiplying your dollars with volunteers as well.
In my experience, in going to agencies regularly, I see a wonderful interplay between the community of settled Canadians and newcomers. That's an additional advantage to the work you do. Not only do you help newcomers settle into Canada, but you also help those of us who have been here longer to understand what's going on in their lives. Thank you for that work.
Ms. Douglas, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. First, do you have a role in keeping statistics or data with respect to the agencies that are members of your organization?
9:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants (OCASI)
Yes, we do. On an annual basis, during the membership renewal process, agencies are asked a number of questions, such as number of clients served, number of staff, levels of funding, and sources of funding.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Do you perceive that the number of clients being served by your organizations is decreasing?
9:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants (OCASI)
Not at all. One of the areas I'm hoping this committee will probe is the connection, the direct line, that's being drawn between the number of clients and positive outcomes. I don't think that CIC itself has reported out that any of the agencies that have to report on a monthly basis have seen a decline in services.
I do think there has to be a recognition--and I believe Bridget mentioned it--that some clients integrate or settle faster than others do, but there are always needs. For us in Ontario, the fact that our landing numbers have decreased over the last five years does not necessarily correspond to there being a decrease for service.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
That's right. The statistics we get from CIC are based on absolute numbers of newcomers, not necessarily on the number of people who access services. So we need those numbers of people who access services, which may be on the increase, because not every newcomer to Canada accesses services. We send them, from my office, to agencies all the time. Some go and some don't go. I think that may be helpful. We may ask for some numbers from you on the actual numbers of people accessing services.
9:15 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants (OCASI)
I actually would submit that we should get those numbers from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, which has a more accurate picture.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Okay. We'll ask for that.
The second area is that I was pushing the CIC officials on Tuesday regarding interprovincial traffic of newcomers to Canada, landing in one area but within a certain number of years moving to another area. They did say that there was a general east to west migration.
However, since Tuesday, when I researched it--because I didn't know this--I have found out that that's based on tax filers. The only data they're using is from people who file income tax returns. It's not on people and where they're living and paying rent or living with friends and not paying rent.
I'm now trying to get some subjective understanding of this. Do you perceive that there's been a migration from the east to the west because the economy in Alberta has boomed? Of course, all Canadians and newcomers have moved. Newcomers, in my perception, sometimes have landed in one area but have then resettled where there's a significant Afghan community or a significant number of their compatriots so that they can actually have other resources. Is that your experience?
I'm going to go first to you, and then to Mr. Kakar after that.
9:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants (OCASI)
Yes, that is our experience, in terms of the secondary migration research that you are speaking to. It's a research report that was commissioned by Citizenship and Immigration. It's an internal report to the department. What we do know from that report is that in Ontario we have over 90% retention of immigrants who come to Ontario. There is some slight movement. Unfortunately, what it doesn't capture, and this is particularly to Toronto, is interprovincial movement.
You're right, the research was done based on tax filings, nothing else.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Your tax filings between 2000 and 2006. That's what the officials didn't explain to me on Tuesday, so I'm a little concerned that they gave some information that wasn't really germane to this issue.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Mr. Oliphant, I'm going to allow another question. I'm going to have each caucus for five minutes to allow time for this motion. You have time for one more question.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Mr. Kakar, is that your experience too, about interprovincial migration?
9:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Afghan Association of Ontario
Absolutely. It's not only interprovincial, honourable member, but also from other parts of the country. We do receive, let's say, a secondary migration from Quebec, a secondary migration from British Columbia, from Alberta. So we receive all of these Afghans because they have a relationship in Toronto or in Ontario, particularly in—
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
9:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Afghan Association of Ontario
Absolutely, yes. So that is the experience that we have being seeing for the past several years.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
February 10th, 2011 / 9:20 a.m.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I understand that this issue presents a number of distinct problems. The first being that, overall, cuts are made to a budget and then, in addition to that cut, the amounts are redistributed, which means that certain cities that were used to having more funding receive less, while other cities receive more. That's what I would like your opinion on. Even Mr. Oliphant clearly stressed that the numbers used by the department might not be representative of where the needs are, because an immigrant may arrive somewhere and then move elsewhere. There may also be categories of immigrants who have greater needs than others. But, in general, I think that we can still figure that needs may shift geographically in Canada over time and that we'll need to adjust the situation.
What astonishes me about the method put forward by the government is the fairly brutal nature of these changes. When the public servants appeared in Ottawa, I asked them quite simply if they could carry out so brutal a transition within the public service. Could they say, "We no longer need 55 people in Toronto, so we are going to move them to Alberta or elsewhere"? They didn't really answer me, but we understand that it's absolutely impossible. I have the impression that we are treating groups like yours a little like labour that is easy to get rid of when we no longer need them, and we just decide to send them somewhere else. That isn't the reality. It takes time to train the people in your organizations, make them efficient so they can provide services and, of course, once the cuts happen, all those people are left with almost nothing. This doesn't mean that they are going to want to move to another city in Ontario or Alberta to continue working.
Often in the public service, attrition is used or funding for new projects in one place is withdrawn to devote new energies elsewhere. Do you think that this might be a more appropriate way of moving people to meet this new demand of immigrants somewhere other than in Toronto, for example? We could say that we are going to continue what's been done already, that we are not going to increase the rate and offers of service, but that we are going to at least maintain it and that new service offerings will go in the new places. So we could try to reconcile the need to move the offer of services while anticipating that we will need to provide some transition.