Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 4th, 2013

[Robert Orr]

I suppose there are a number of variations on this. One would be presenting incorrect information. The second thing might be fraudulent documents of some sort or another, be they fraudulent bank statements, or fraudulent educational statements. There are a variety of different things there. The third thing might be an impostor, someone who is coming in to present themselves as someone else. Hopefully, with use of biometrics, we will be able to minimize that final form of fraud.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

You've actually bridged very nicely into my next question, and that is to get to the whole issue of the introduction of biometrics and the security level checks that we intend to enforce over the next number of years, including our partnership with the United States in that regard.

That is, the theme of this exercise of review is the security of Canadians in terms of the process that we are following in this respect. If we work through the theme of security as being a major principle behind why there is denial...because fraud would lead one to believe that a person is attempting to get into this country for some reason other than what they indicated on their forms.

I find it very difficult on a regular basis to have the individuals who are representatives here in the House of Commons indicate that there is anything other than the security of our country and Canadian citizens as the rationale behind why we pay such diligence to the reviews that are completed by our folks who work abroad in our ministry.

Could you comment?

[Les Linklater]

I think that we take our accountability under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act very seriously. Our officers abroad are the front line in terms of gaining access to Canada through the visa process, and with our partnership with public safety agencies, we fulfill that to a very high level on a daily basis. Bob was talking about the dedication of staff in some of our offices given the pressures they have. It's quite remarkable the volumes of work they move through as quickly as they do with such good results in terms of quality and quality assurance based on our risk principles.

Mr. Chair, as was stated, ensuring that Canadians and permanent residents in Canada are protected from threats and risks is a job we take very seriously. Program integrity is something that our officers work on daily to enhance and maintain, ensuring that Canada's generosity is not abused.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

One of the challenges we face as members of Parliament—as has been indicated by Ms. Sims on a couple of occasions and Mr. Lamoureux on one during his time—is the inadmissibility of those who want to travel here for a special occasion.

One of the points that she has brought up on a couple of occasions, which brings about this question, is that generally speaking, those who are requesting individuals, their family, friends, or relatives from another country to come here to visit and who require a visa are folks of fairly well-to-do means who are prepared to take on whatever responsibility necessary.

One of the issues we talked about in our security study was the potential of a bond, if you will—a fee that would be associated with the individual's travel here to Canada—and the potential for that bond to be kept by the ministry until that individual.... Now that we're working through our entry and exit tracking strategies, potentially the bond would make sense.

Is this something that the ministry has reviewed, and if so, have you compared it against other countries who are implementing a similar strategy?

[Les Linklater]

We haven't done a lot of work on a bond. As I said, we think that the current process provides a fairly good response to the demand for access to Canada.

Our initial assessment of a bond is that it's fairly administratively challenging to administer. What we've seen in terms of previous experience is that it hasn't really acted as a deterrent in a number of cases where bonds have been used by other countries. People still go underground or forfeit the bond, simply for the opportunity to gain access to another country. The handling of monies, getting into that sort of degree of complexity, adds to our risk in terms of the handling of public monies and that sort of thing.

From our early assessment, it doesn't look like a particularly viable approach, and it was in fact studied by this committee in 2005 and rejected as a recommendation.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Linklater.

Madam Groguhé.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Rejections were discussed earlier. Could you provide the committee with a summary table of rejection cases, which account for 18% of your caseload? That would give us some idea of what those rejections are based on.

[Les Linklater]

I have to tell you that determining what the reasons for rejections are will be difficult, as that information is not entered into our system. The record will only indicate whether the application is approved or rejected. The reasons for a refusal are explained in the notes.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Oh, that's too bad.

I have a question about the use of biometrics and about TRV applications. How does the collection of biometric data help immigration officers determine a traveller's intent?

[Les Linklater]

For us, the main purpose of implementing a biometric system is to establish a traveller's identity. If we can use our partners' help to determine that a person with the same characteristics has already submitted an application or has already visited another country under a different identity, we will have a strong indication that the person is not acting in good faith. At the beginning of the process, that helps us establish the identity of the individual before us by matching their physical characteristics to a specific name.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay. So that would mainly apply to identity fraud.

[Les Linklater]

Yes.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Very well.

Has CIC prescribed an amount for the fees travellers will have to pay once the electronic travel authorization has been implemented?

[Les Linklater]

Not yet, but we will base our decision on the provisions of the Financial Administration Act. We cannot impose fees that exceed the cost of the service provided. We will follow the regulatory process. We will first publish regulations setting out the fees, and we will ask the public to comment on the fee structure.

Currently, we think we can offer a very competitive rate compared with the countries we are in competition with. The cost will be about $10.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay.

Can you tell us what databases the system will consult before issuing an electronic travel authorization? Will the databases be Canadian or international? Or will they belong to certain specific countries? How will all that be orchestrated?

[Les Linklater]

Are you talking about biometrics?

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Yes.

[A voice]

For ETA.

[Les Linklater]

Are you talking about electronic visas or biometrics?

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I am mainly talking about the ETA.

[Les Linklater]

We will work with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police when it comes to biometrics. The RCMP will store all the data and establish a connection with other agencies to determine what information is available on a given individual.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay. So it will mainly be a database established by the RCMP, or the database the RCMP already has. Is that right?

[Les Linklater]

Yes.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay.

Under Bill C-45, the ETA fees will not be subject to the User Fees Act. Why are services related to an electronic travel authorization application and biometrics exempted from the User Fees Act?

[Les Linklater]

As the committee members know, the process used to set fees is very complicated and long. We have an obligation to consult everyone affected by the initiative. Since those fees will be paid by Canadians, they deserve to be consulted on the issue.

Since we have to consult people outside the country and will be guided by the provisions of the Financial Administration Act, the exemption gives us a flexibility tool to ensure our ability to respond to circumstances abroad. However, our fees cannot exceed the service cost.