Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We will reconvene the meeting. I see Ms. Sims approaching the table.

You may begin, Ms. Sims.

Before you do, I should identify what we're doing, in case some of you don't know. This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. We are continuing with meeting 84, which is a study of a motion to go to the House to allow the committee to continue studying Mr. Shory's Bill C-425 for a further 30 days.

Ms. Sims, Ms. Freeman, I'm sorry, but Madame Groguhé has a point of order.

Proceed.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As we reconvene our meeting, I wanted to ask if you would allow us all a moment of reflection and contemplation, as is customary in the House. If we all had a moment to compose ourselves, we could carry on with our discussion in a calm and collected manner.

Basically, I am asking for the committee's consent, and your permission, of course, Mr. Chair, to pause for a moment to collect our thoughts and reflect on our suggestions, attitudes and such.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I'd like to disagree with that because we have spent more than a week in this committee. We've had numerous suspensions and adjournments. We've had many minutes to reflect on how this committee is going, and I'd like to get back to work this morning.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You want to reflect for a minute? What do you want to reflect upon?

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I think....

I think it's very important, Mr. Chair.

An article in the Ottawa Sun highlighted the fact that you were using your gavel, Mr. Chair, to stop me from speaking. I think it's quite clear that we need a moment to reflect and pull ourselves together. A request like this isn't at all out of place given that Mr. Weston was the one who brought it up, and I think he was absolutely right.

Mr. Chair, I agree with him. Sometimes, it's necessary to pause for a moment to give cooler heads a chance to prevail, as I just mentioned, to ensure the proceedings can continue in an orderly and respectful manner.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Lamoureux, be brief.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I will attempt to be brief, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

At this point I don't think it's a valid point of order, but maybe you can persuade me to the contrary.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I think that one could ultimately say it's based on tradition, a very short tradition of last week. We had a different chair and it was suggested by Mr. Weston that we have this moment of silence. Much as it surprised you, Mr. Chair, it somewhat surprised me. I'm not too sure whether or not it's warranted.

I'm inclined to agree with Ms. James. If in fact there are opportunities for people to come prior to committee to do some meditations and so forth, prior to committee getting under way, I would recommend that they do that.

Based on the fact that we're still on the same issue we were on last week, and the Conservatives proposed it last week, in the sense of fairness, one should probably allow for the New Democrats to provide it this week. I can assure you that I will not be doing it on behalf of the Liberals. We have a good sense in terms of where we want to go on this issue, and we will do just that.

It's up to you as chair, but in the sense of being fair to both sides, I would suggest that you would allow it this one time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I've never heard of such a thing, and that may have gone on last week, but there's a new sheriff in town and I don't think it's a point of order.

Ms. Sims, you have the floor.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm sorry. There's more debate going on.

I apologize, Mr. Weston. You have the floor.

I have made a ruling, but I could be persuaded to change my mind.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

When I made my proposal last week, I had consulted with no one. I had proposed it knowing that we were about to embark on the use of very expensive resources: time, money, and people.

We have to remember what we came here for rather than perhaps become lost among the trees. I suggested perhaps a moment of reflection might help us to remember that, and remember what forest we were trying to occupy. I would support the suggestion, and I don't think it's a very big inconvenience, but it might just cause us to achieve more in the hours or days that follow.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I always encourage the parties to agree on matters, if they can. In other words, I always encourage ways of settling or resolving things. If that's what the purpose of it is—although last night the meeting was adjourned at a quarter to eight, or ten to eight, I can't remember, and there was time then. Purposely, we didn't start until a quarter to ten. There was time then. There's been time to resolve....

I appreciate what you're saying, Mr. Weston, Mr. Lamoureux, and Madame Groguhé, but I don't think it's a valid point of order. I think we've spent a lot of time on this motion and the amendments thereto. I hope the parties can come to some resolution. I'm here to try to keep order and peace and follow the rules, the Standing Orders. I will continue to do that. I'm certainly not going to discourage members from talking about things at perhaps other times.

Madam Sims, you have the floor.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

A point of order.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

A point of order, Ms. James.

Or is it on the same point of order?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

No, it's a different point of order. Yesterday you made a point of acknowledging three members of this committee who were not wearing jackets—Mr. Lamoureux, Mr. Dykstra, and Mr. Leung. I'm looking across and I see you've just acknowledged Ms. Sims and she is wearing a jersey knit shirt and no jacket, and I just would like clarification whether there's a double standard in this committee, or whether women are allowed to just wear shirts...[Inaudible--Editor].

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I've actually looked this up in the rules and I will point it out to you, if you require it. It is a rule in the House of Commons that gentlemen are required to wear jackets, and if they don't wear jackets, they will not be recognized by the chair. There is no similar rule for women. So, Ms. James, that's something that you can work on, that women do not have the same rule as gentlemen. The ladies should be dressed appropriately. There is a definition of what gentlemen should be required to wear but there's no corollary requirement for women.

Therefore, I'm not going to make a ruling about that. Obviously, women should be appropriately dressed when they appear in the House of Commons. They're representing Canada. When women are in the House, in a committee, whether it's a standing, legislative, or whatever committee, they should be appropriately dressed as well, but there is no similar rule that I can enforce that exists.

So I would strongly recommend, if you feel strongly about that, that you pursue it with the appropriate authorities, to require similar rules for women.

Ms. Sims, you have the floor.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just to that point, before I proceed with my speaking, I'm very familiar with the rules. As a matter of fact, when I was newly elected I checked into all of those. Just to make a point, I always make sure I'm appropriately dressed for the occasion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Just for the record, in my opinion, you are appropriately dressed.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you so much.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I will also make this comment. It's not a point of order or anything. While I was in the chair, I did agree to a nine-minute silence, which was basically what was asked for.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Let's move on, Ms. Sims.